
X Financial XYF Q1 2025 Earnings Call Transcript
Tuesday, May 20, 2025, at 7:30 a.m. EDT
CALL PARTICIPANTS
Chief Executive Officer — Kent Li
Chief Financial Officer — Frank Fuya Zheng
President — Noah Kauffman
Investor Relations — Victoria Yu
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TAKEAWAYS
Loan Originations: Facilitated RMB 35.15 billion in new loans, up 8.8% sequentially and 63.4% year over year.
Total Revenue: Reached RMB 1.94 billion, a 13.4% increase from Q4 2024 and over 60% year over year.
Asset Quality: 31 to 60-day delinquency rate improved to 1.25% (from 1.61%); 91 to 180-day delinquency rate declined to 2.7% (from 4.7%).
Total Loan Outstanding Balance: RMB 58.4 billion, excluding loans over 60 days delinquent, up over 33% year over year.
Loans Facilitated: Over 3.14 million processed, with an average loan amount of RMB 11,181.
Income from Operations: RMB 573 million, up 52% year over year, reflecting improved operational leverage and expense management.
Non-GAAP Adjusted Net Income: Reached RMB 467 million, a 44.9% increase year over year.
Basic Earnings per ADS: USD 1.50, up approximately 45.6% year over year.
Return on Equity: Increased to 25.5%, up 1.4 percentage points year over year and 3.2 percentage points sequentially.
Share Repurchase Program: New buyback plan authorized for up to $100 million of Class A shares and ADS, effective January 1, 2025 to November 30, 2026, in addition to $15.9 million remaining from a previous plan.
Q2 2025 Outlook: Management expects facilitated and originated loan amounts to range from RMB 37.5 billion to RMB 39.5 billion.
Regulatory Environment: Management described the recent National Financial Regulatory Administration notice as reinforcing "responsible credit assets and financial stability" and committed to regulatory compliance.
SUMMARY
X Financial (NYSE:XYF) delivered double-digit sequential and year-over-year growth in loan originations and revenue, which management attributed to rising borrower demand and disciplined risk management. The company reported substantial improvements in adjusted net income, operational leverage, and return on equity. Despite seasonally negative effects, delinquency rates declined across key periods, with management citing enhancements to technology, underwriting, and customer engagement. Management indicated confidence in the near-term growth outlook and described increased regulatory oversight as a constructive industry development.
Chief Financial Officer Zheng said, "We have recently authorized a new share repurchase plan allowing us to buy back up to $100 million worth of our Class A shares and ADS."
Chief Executive Officer Li stated, "our delinquency rate will still have some uptick, but those upticks will be more than offset by our overall scale. That basically means that our profit will continue to grow despite minor increases in delinquency rates."
Management reiterated that preparation for a new regulation is underway and indicated the company remains "fully compliant with the new regulation before the October 1st deadline."
The company signaled it "will keep the same pace in the acquisition effort in the second quarter" and aims to achieve 30% volume growth this year, pending any regulatory impacts in the fourth quarter.
INDUSTRY GLOSSARY
ADS: American depositary share, a U.S.-traded equity share representing a specified number of shares in a foreign company.
Delinquency Rate (31-60/91-180 Day): The percentage of outstanding loans that are 31 to 60 days, or 91 to 180 days, past due but not yet written off, used as an indicator of portfolio credit quality.
Loan Origination: The process by which a lender approves and funds new loans for borrowers, relevant here as a measure of business activity volume for X Financial's marketplace.
Full Conference Call Transcript
Kent Li: Thank you, Victoria, and hello, everyone. We are pleased with our 2025 headwinds. In the first quarter, we facilitated RMB 35.15 billion in loans, an 8.8% sequential increase and 63.4% growth year over year. It was one of our strongest quarters for origination, reflecting solid borrower demand and continued progress in risk management. Our team remained focused on expanding opportunities through both new partnerships and existing relationships, enhancing our technology platform and underwriting models to support profitability and scalability. Balancing growth and risk as we broaden access to qualified borrowers, we are also working to improve the borrower experience by delivering faster decisions, simplifying application processes, and enhancing transparency.
In parallel, we continue to strengthen platform reliability and support tools to help customers make informed borrowing decisions and manage repayment with confidence. Despite the typical seasonal impact from Chinese New Year, we achieved sequential growth in both loan volume and revenue. Total revenue reached RMB 1.94 billion, up 13.4% from Q4 and over 60% year over year. These results reflected steady progress in growing the platform responsibly. Operational and credit quality update. We also made continued progress on asset quality. As of March 31st, our 31 to 60-day delinquency rate was 1.25%, compared to 1.61% a year ago, reflecting a 22% improvement year over year.
The 91 to 180-day delinquency rate was 2.7%, down from 4.7% in Q1 2024, a 37% reduction year over year. These improvements reflect disciplined borrower screening and underwriting practices. We have also continued to enhance borrower engagement and repayment behavior through timely communication and tailored repayment assistance programs. These initiatives have contributed meaningfully to our risk management outcomes and supported further portfolio stability. Now I will turn the call to Noah to go over some key Q1 metrics and highlights.
Noah Kauffman: Thank you, Kent. Hello, everyone. It's a pleasure to speak with you today. Let me share several highlights from our Q1 operational and financial performance. On the operational metrics, we facilitated approximately RMB 35.15 billion in loan originations, marking a 63.4% year-over-year increase. Our total loan outstanding balance, excluding loans over 60 days delinquent, reached RMB 58.4 billion, growing by more than 33% from Q1 2024. We facilitated over 3.14 million loans with an average loan amount of RMB 11,181. On the financial highlights, total revenue grew to RMB 1.94 billion, up 13.4% sequentially and 60.4% year over year, primarily driven by higher borrow volumes and originations.
Our income from operations expanded substantially, reaching RMB 573 million, up 52% year over year. This demonstrates our improved operational leverage and disciplined expense management. Our average funding costs improved year over year, supported by a more optimized funding structure and sustained commitment from our core institutional partners. This reflects the strength of our platform and deepening trust within our funding network. With these metrics, we continue to see notable gains in operational efficiency and market positioning. I'll now hand the call over to Frank to walk through the financials, discuss capital allocation priorities, provide regulatory insights, and outline our growth outlook for 2025.
Frank Fuya Zheng: Thank you, Noah. It's great to speak with everyone today. I will provide additional insights into our profitability metrics, liquidity, and strategic plans for capital allocation. Non-GAAP adjusted net income for Q1 reached RMB 467 million, an increase of 44.9% year over year, reflecting sustained earnings. Basic earnings per ADS improved significantly to USD 1.50, approximately a 45.6% year-over-year increase, underscoring enhanced profitability per share. Return on equity increased to 25.5%, widening 1.4 percentage points year over year and 3.2 percentage points sequentially, reflecting our sustained financial discipline and growing operational efficiency. Our liquidity remains strong, positioning us well to support ongoing operations, investments, and capital returns. Share repurchase plan.
We have recently authorized a new share repurchase plan allowing us to buy back up to $100 million worth of our Class A shares and ADS. This authorization will be in effect for an 18-month period running from January 1, 2025, to November 30, 2026. This new authorization comes in addition to our existing repurchase plan approved last December, which still has approximately $15.9 million remaining. Regulatory environment update. The regulatory environment in China remains dynamic, and we remain fully committed to compliance and alignment with the overall policy direction. The recent notice from the National Financial Regulatory Administration affirms the current trajectory with a clear focus on responsible credit assets and financial stability.
We see increased oversight as a positive step that supports long-term industry development and reflects growing recognition of our role. While evolving rules introduce high compliance requirements, they also create space for innovation and more sustainable growth. We continue to engage proactively with regulatory bodies and remain focused on responsible execution within the evolving framework. 2025 growth outlook. Based on current trends, X Financial expects the total loan amount facilitated and originated in the second quarter of 2025 to be in the range of RMB 37.5 billion to RMB 39.5 billion, reflecting continued strong demand in the first quarter. With that, I will pass the call back to our President, Kent Li, for closing remarks.
Kent Li: Thank you, Frank. As we progress through 2025, we remain confident in our strategic direction, grounded in strong underwriting, disciplined risk management, and ongoing operational improvement. With a solid financial foundation and a clear focus on long-term value creation, we are well-positioned for sustainable and profitable growth. Thank you.
Operator: We will now begin the question and answer session. To ask a question, you may press star then one on your touch-tone phone. If you are using a speakerphone, please pick up your handset before pressing the keys. If at any time your question has been addressed and you would like to withdraw your question, you may do so. The first question today comes from Kenning Zhao with Norton Andrews. Please go ahead.
Kenning Zhao: Hi. I'm Kenning from Norton Andrews. Congratulations, and thank you for the great performance in the first quarter. Well, my first question is there's strong growth in your business, both in new loan origination and active users. You mentioned there will be further growth. I wonder if that means you like the current macroeconomic environment and the loan market? And, well, it's not big, but the delinquency rate has also ticked up a little bit compared to the end of last year. If the loan volumes continue to grow, should we expect further increases in the delinquency rate? And, oh, can I have a second question?
Can we get this first question answered first, and then you can ask me the next one?
Kent Li: Of course. Thank you. Responding to your, I think you mentioned several questions in your comments. So let's focus on them one by one. The first one, how we view the current environment. I think our company has never tried to grow our portfolio for the sake of growth. So we are always trying to manage our portfolio based on our assessment of the future environment. That being said, I think right now, based on our historic trend and our analysis, the overall environment is still good for portfolio growth. That is why we are still focused on growth at this moment.
Another thing is that since the second half of last year, we have invested a lot in acquiring new customers. So as these customers mature in our portfolio, we are able to offer them better lines and better products, so they stick with us longer. That is also the best foundation for our growth. In terms of the delinquency rate, I think the reason you see an uptick from the lower level we achieved somewhat last year is that I would say that probably was the bottom part of our delinquency rate. So even with this uptick, I think our delinquency rate with regard to our portfolio is still very healthy. So we are not particularly concerned about that.
And going forward, we do expect that our delinquency rate will still have some uptick, but those upticks will be more than offset by our overall scale. That basically means that our profit will not be impacted by a certain frequency.
Frank Fuya Zheng: Let me add also regarding the delinquency rate. That number is actually as a risk profile situation from last quarter to Q1 is actually stable. And the number is a little bit skewed, and if you take another look, if you look at our Q1 income statement under the operation expense cost expenses, the first one is automation and services. It's basically operation expenses. The second one is the marketing acquisition, customer acquisition. And the third one is general and administration cost. So those are the three general costs. But the rest, like provision this way and provision that way, if you add up together, this is all risk-related cost.
If you add up this quarter, Q1, and you add up Q4 last quarter, all the provisions together, you will find the Q1 provision is about RMB 60 million less than last quarter. But the amount is RMB 60 million actually, because this RMB 57 million is related to our own insurance business, which means because our own insurance business, the revenue you book in one period and the cost you book the whole thing together in one time. Because last quarter, Q4, they did more, well, you know, first the guarantee company did more business so they have more of that.
So if you take out this RMB 57 million, actually, the cost apple to apple, the cost related to, you know, you take out all the, you know, the risk related to the guarantee business, actually, we have a, like, RMB 3-4 million less cost on Q1 compared with Q4. So overall, the conclusion is, you know, the risk situation remains basically the same. Not much better, not much worse. That's the thing. But having said that, we all expect because this regulatory development will be coming in October, we will prepare and there will be costs because of that, there may be some uptick, you know, cost risk situation with some uptick down the road, but not in Q1.
Not in Q2. We haven't found this situation change much at all. That's why we continue to invest a lot in customer acquisition also.
Kenning Zhao: Thank you for the detailed answer. Well, my second question is about the repurchase. You haven't repurchased any shares in the first quarter, but you have approved another share repurchase program. Just wondering if you repurchased any, like, during April's market volatility, and should we expect you to continue the aggressive stock buybacks as you did last year? Thank you.
Frank Fuya Zheng: Yes. Because Q1 has no open window, so we usually do the buyback during the open window from the old shareholders. Right now, I mean, the incoming open window, we pretty much show, you know, the remaining, almost RMB 60 million is locked, it will be used up in the coming open window, and we will very likely kick into the buyback during the, you know, down window period also. So that's why we have this newly authorized RMB 100 million to cover that. I hope it answers your question.
Kenning Zhao: Yes, sir. Thank you very much, and thank you again for the wonderful call.
Operator: The next question comes from Alex Ye with UBS. Please go ahead.
Alex Ye: Hi. Good evening, management. Thanks for taking my question. It's Alex from UBS. So I have two questions, if I may. So the first one is regarding your loan growth guidance for the next quarter. Is it still going to be a bit of a good growth? Just wondering, what's driving the growth behind and how do you see, you know, the underlying loan application or credit demand in the last two months in April or May? Have you seen any suffering trend given a lot of the noise on the macro front? And the second question is a bit on your funding supply.
So given, you know, there has been this new regulatory announcement since April, I'm wondering, have you heard any feedback from your funding partners with regard to their attitude towards this loan pricing, which is going above 24%? And then do you see anything we need to adjust in our current purchase order to ensure that we're more compliant? Thank you.
Kent Li: Okay. I'll first answer the first question about the growth. As I mentioned to the last investor, our growth has always been based on our assessment of the upcoming risk environment. So at this moment, I think that the way we grow our portfolio has always been acquiring new customers, getting the customers on board, and gradually introducing them to better products, which largely means lower fees and higher lines. Our growth has largely grown from this strategy. So you asked about April or May or June. Our growth path has always been like that. In terms of our funding institutional partners, right now, we are in very close conversation with them about the upcoming changes.
And at this moment, what I can say is that we expect there will be changes. We are going to make some adjustments, but I don't see our company has always been confident we will be fully compliant with the new regulation before the October 1st deadline. So we are not particularly concerned about that. That being said, any new regulation will always bring some small shocks to the industry. So we do expect that there will be some shocks in our industry. It's just that I think our company is in a very good position to take those shocks.
So our growth, I think our growth prospect will not be changed based on whatever we are providing to the investors.
Frank Fuya Zheng: Hi, Alex. First of all, welcome to our earnings call. Welcome. Regarding the, let me just basically ask the same question again. And I think we really took advantage of the good risk environment since the second half of last year. So our run rate is, you know, at the end of last year, it's already pretty high, and you saw that we spent very aggressively in acquisition in Q1, and we will keep the same pace in the acquisition effort in the second quarter. So based on our current forecast, we look to Q2 this year, we are ahead of, you know, 30% the gross volume growth for this year.
But we are not, you know, not have no intention to increase the forecast anytime soon because we will, you know, see when in Q3, you know, what's the effect, you know, the regulatory policy impact on the industry. So the YCAA, you know, they look at the insertion regarding Q4 volume, and that's what I'm trying to say. And so overall, I think we are confident to achieve 30% volume growth for this year. But other than that, maybe not more, it's all because Q4 volume is kind of in limbo right now.
Regarding the preparation for the new regulatory, possible regulatory impact, we do some, you know, talking to the people and, you know, talking to the regulatory mostly our institutional partners, and with some regulatory authorities. And we are preparing some, you know, technology-wise, you know, if the deal there's no new policy can come down, and we can accommodate it very quickly, efficiently, you know, from technology operation-wise. Other than that, we, you know, like anybody else, we don't know much of what's going to come down. Thank you.
Alex Ye: Understood. Thank you very much.
Operator: This concludes our question-and-answer session. I would like to turn the conference back over to Victoria Yu for any closing remarks.
Victoria Yu: Thank you, everyone, for joining us today. If you have additional questions, please reach out to our Investor Relations team directly. We appreciate your interest and look forward to speaking with you again soon.
Operator: Thank you. The conference is now concluded. Thank you for attending today's presentation. You may now disconnect.
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Adjusted Net Other Operating Income Adjusted Net Other Operating Income is Net Other Operating Income (the most directly comparable IFRS measure) adjusted to exclude insurance recoveries related to the Kent Hills replacement costs of the tower collapse as these relate to investing activities and are not reflective of ongoing business performance. Adjustments to Earnings (Loss) in Addition to Interest, Taxes, Depreciation and Amortization Fair value change in contingent consideration payable is not included as it is not reflective of ongoing business performance. Asset impairment charges and reversals are not included as these are accounting adjustments that impact depreciation and amortization and do not reflect ongoing business performance. Any gains or losses on asset sales or foreign exchange gains or losses are not included as these are not part of operating income. Adjustments for Equity-Accounted Investments During the fourth quarter of 2020, we acquired a 49 per cent interest in the Skookumchuck wind facility, which is treated as an equity investment under IFRS and our proportionate share of the net earnings is reflected as equity income on the statement of earnings under IFRS. As this investment is part of our regular power-generating operations, we have included our proportionate share of adjusted EBITDA for the Skookumchuck wind facility in our total adjusted EBITDA. In addition, in the Wind and Solar adjusted results, we have included our proportionate share of revenues and expenses to reflect the full operational results of this investment. We have not included adjusted EBITDA of other equity-accounted investments in our total adjusted EBITDA as it does not represent our regular power-generating operations. Adjusted Earnings (Loss) before income taxes Adjusted earnings (loss) before income taxes represents segmented earnings (loss) adjusted for certain items that we believe do not reflect ongoing business performance and is an important metric for evaluating performance trends in each segment. For details of the adjustments made to earnings (loss) before income taxes (the most directly comparable IFRS measure) to calculate adjusted earnings (loss) before income taxes, refer to the Reconciliation of Non-IFRS Measures on a Consolidated Basis by Segment section of the MD&A. Adjusted Net Earnings (Loss) attributable to common shareholders Adjusted net earnings (loss) attributable to common shareholders represents net earnings (loss) attributable to common shareholders adjusted for specific reclassifications and adjustments and their tax impact, and is an important metric for evaluating performance. For details of the reclassifications and adjustments made to net earnings (loss) attributable to common shareholders (the most directly comparable IFRS measure), please refer to the reconciliation of net earnings (loss) to adjusted net earnings (loss) attributable to common shareholders in the Reconciliation of Non-IFRS Measures on a Consolidated Basis by Segment section of the MD&A. Adjusted Net Earnings (Loss) per common share attributable to common shareholders Adjusted net earning (loss) per common share attributable to common shareholders is calculated as adjusted net earnings (loss) attributable to common shareholders divided by a weighted average number of common shares outstanding during the period. The measure is useful in showing the earnings per common share for our core operational results as it excludes the impact of items that do not reflect an ongoing business performance. Adjusted net earnings (loss) attributable per common share is a non-IFRS ratio and the most directly comparable IFRS measure is net income (loss) per common share attributable to common shareholders. Refer to the reconciliation of earnings (loss) before income taxes to adjusted net earnings (loss) attributable to common shareholders in the Reconciliation of Non-IFRS Measures on a Consolidated Basis by Segment section of the MD&A. Funds From Operations (FFO) Represents a proxy for cash generated from operating activities before changes in working capital and provides the ability to evaluate cash flow trends in comparison with results from prior periods. FFO is calculated as cash flow from operating activities before changes in working capital and is adjusted for transactions and amounts that the Company believes are not representative of ongoing cash flows from operations. Free Cash Flow (FCF) Represents the amount of cash that is available to invest in growth initiatives, make scheduled principal debt repayments, repay maturing debt, pay common share dividends or repurchase common shares and provides the ability to evaluate cash flow trends in comparison with the results from prior periods. Changes in working capital are excluded so that FFO and FCF are not distorted by changes that we consider temporary in nature, reflecting, among other things, the impact of seasonal factors and timing of receipts and payments. Non-IFRS Ratios FFO per share, FCF per share and adjusted net debt to adjusted EBITDA are non-IFRS ratios that are presented in the MD&A. Refer to the Reconciliation of Cash Flow from Operations to FFO and FCF and Key Non-IFRS Financial Ratios sections of the MD&A for additional information. Net Interest Expense Net interest expense is calculated as total interest expense less total interest income and non-cash items. For detailed calculation refer to the table in the Reconciliation of Adjusted EBITDA to FFO and FCF section of this MD&A. Net Interest expense is a proxy for the actual cash interest paid that approximates the cash outflow in the FFO and FCF calculation. The most directly comparable IFRS measure is total interest expense. FFO per share and FCF per share FFO per share and FCF per share are calculated using the weighted average number of common shares outstanding during the period. FFO per share and FCF per share are non-IFRS ratios. Supplementary financial measures include available liquidity, carbon compliance per MWh, fuel cost per MWh, hedged power price average per MWh, realized foreign exchange loss, sustaining capital expenditures, the Alberta electricity portfolio metrics and unrealized foreign exchange loss (gain). Reconciliation of these non-IFRS financial measures to the most comparable IFRS measure are provided below. The following table reflects adjusted EBITDA and adjusted earnings (loss) before income taxes by segment and provides reconciliation to earnings (loss) before income taxes for the three months ended June 30, 2025: Reclassifications and adjustments: Unrealized mark-to-market (gain) loss 18 68 71 15 (2) — 170 — (170) — Decrease in finance lease receivable — — 7 — — — 7 — (7) — Finance lease income — 2 3 — — — 5 — (5) — Revenues from Planned Divestitures — — (3) — — — (3) — 3 — Unrealized foreign exchange gain on commodity — — — — (2) — (2) — 2 — Adjusted revenue 147 129 282 88 34 (67) 613 (3) (177) 433 Fuel and purchased power 7 9 106 51 — — 173 — — 173 Reclassifications and adjustments: Fuel and purchased power related to Planned Divestitures — — (1) — — — (1) — 1 — Adjusted fuel and purchased power 7 9 105 51 — — 172 — 1 173 Carbon compliance costs (recovery) — 1 (8) — — (67) (74) — — (74) Adjusted gross margin 140 119 185 37 34 — 515 (3) (178) 334 OM&A 13 25 65 18 8 45 174 (1) — 173 Reclassifications and adjustments: OM&A related to Planned Divestitures — — (1) — — — (1) — 1 — ERP integration costs — — — — — (6) (6) — 6 — Acquisition-related transaction and restructuring costs — — — — — (1) (1) — 1 — Adjusted OM&A 13 25 64 18 8 38 166 (1) 8 173 Taxes, other than income taxes 1 5 5 — — 1 12 — — 12 Net other operating income — — (12) — — — (12) — — (12) Adjusted EBITDA (2) 126 89 128 19 26 (39) 349 Depreciation and amortization (8) (52) (74) (13) — (4) (151) 1 — (150) Equity income — — — — — — — — 1 1 Interest income — — — — — 7 7 (1) — 6 Interest expense — — — — — (89) (89) 1 — (88) Realized foreign exchange gain — — — — — 6 6 — — 6 Adjusted earnings (loss) before income taxes (2) 118 37 54 6 26 (119) 122 Reclassifications and adjustments above (18) (70) (80) (15) 4 (7) (186) Finance lease income — 2 3 — — — 5 — — 5 Skookumchuk earnings reclass to Equity income (1) — (1) — — — 1 — — — — Asset impairment charges — — — (11) — (2) (13) — — (13) Unrealized foreign exchange loss — — — — — (23) (23) — — (23) Earnings (loss) before income taxes 100 (32) (23) (20) 30 (150) (95) — — (95) The Skookumchuck wind facility has been included on a proportionate basis in the Wind and Solar segment. Adjusted EBITDA, adjusted earnings (loss) before income taxes are non-IFRS measures, are not defined, have no standardized meaning under IFRS and may not be comparable to similar measures presented by other issuers. Refer to the Additional Non-IFRS and Supplementary Financial Measures section of this earnings release. The following table reflects adjusted EBITDA and adjusted earnings (loss) before income taxes by segment and provides reconciliation to earnings (loss) before income taxes for the three months ended June 30, 2024: Hydro Wind & Solar (1) Gas Energy Transition Energy Marketing Corporate Total Equity- accounted investments (1) Reclass adjustments IFRS financials Revenues 99 112 284 79 47 (34) 587 (5) — 582 Reclassifications and adjustments: Unrealized mark-to-market (gain) loss 1 8 10 (14) 1 — 6 — (6) — Decrease in finance lease receivable — — 5 — — — 5 — (5) — Finance lease income — 2 2 — — — 4 — (4) — Unrealized foreign exchange gain on commodity — — (1) — — — (1) — 1 — Adjusted revenue 100 122 300 65 48 (34) 601 (5) (14) 582 Fuel and purchased power 3 8 97 46 — — 154 — — 154 Carbon compliance costs (recovery) — — 26 — — (34) (8) — — (8) Adjusted gross margin 97 114 177 19 48 — 455 (5) (14) 436 OM&A 13 24 42 15 9 42 145 (1) — 144 Reclassifications and adjustments: Acquisition-related transaction and restructuring costs — — — — — (4) (4) — 4 — Adjusted OM&A 13 24 42 15 9 38 141 (1) 4 144 Taxes, other than income taxes 1 4 3 2 — — 10 (1) — 9 Net other operating income — (2) (10) — — — (12) — — (12) Adjusted EBITDA (2)(3) 83 88 142 2 39 (38) 316 — — — Depreciation and amortization (8) (47) (56) (15) (1) (5) (132) 1 — (131) Equity income — — — — — 1 1 — 2 3 Interest income — — — — — 8 8 — — 8 Interest expense — — — — — (80) (80) — — (80) Realized foreign exchange loss (3) — — — — — (1) (1) — — (1) Adjusted earnings (loss) before income taxes (2) 75 41 86 (13) 38 (115) 112 — — — Reclassifications and adjustments above (1) (10) (16) 14 (1) (4) (18) — — — Finance lease income — 2 2 — — — 4 — — 4 Skookumchuk earnings reclass to Equity income (1) — (2) — — — 2 — — — — Asset impairment (charges) reversals — (1) — 1 — (5) (5) — — (5) Gain on sale of assets and other (3) — — — 1 — — 1 — — 1 Unrealized foreign exchange loss (3) — — — — — (1) (1) — — (1) Earnings (loss) before income taxes 74 30 72 3 37 (122) 94 — — 94 The Skookumchuck wind facility has been included on a proportionate basis in the Wind and Solar segment. Adjusted EBITDA, adjusted earnings (loss) before income taxes are non-IFRS measures, are not defined, have no standardized meaning under IFRS and may not be comparable to similar measures presented by other issuers. Refer to the Additional Non-IFRS and Supplementary Financial Measures section of this earnings release. During the first quarter of 2025, our Adjusted EBITDA composition was amended to exclude the impact of realized gain (loss) on closed exchange positions and Australian interest income. Therefore, the Company has applied this composition to all previously reported periods. The following table reflects adjusted EBITDA and adjusted earnings (loss) before income taxes by segment and provides reconciliation to earnings (loss) before income taxes for the six months ended June 30, 2025: Hydro Wind & Solar (1) Gas Energy Transition Energy Marketing Corporate Total Equity- accounted investments (1) Reclass adjustments IFRS financials Revenues 215 166 594 227 65 (66) 1,201 (10) — 1,191 Reclassifications and adjustments: Unrealized mark-to-market (gain) loss (3) 104 39 14 (1) — 153 — (153) — Decrease in finance lease receivable — 1 14 — — — 15 — (15) — Finance lease income — 3 8 — — — 11 — (11) — Revenues from Planned Divestitures — — (7) — — — (7) — 7 — Unrealized foreign exchange gain on commodity — — — — (2) — (2) — 2 — Adjusted revenue 212 274 648 241 62 (66) 1,371 (10) (170) 1,191 Fuel and purchased power 11 19 269 149 — 2 450 — — 450 Reclassifications and adjustments: Fuel and purchased power related to Planned Divestitures — — (3) — — — (3) — 3 — Adjusted fuel and purchased power 11 19 266 149 — 2 447 — 3 450 Carbon compliance costs (recovery) — 2 41 — — (68) (25) — — (25) Adjusted gross margin 201 253 341 92 62 — 949 (10) (173) 766 OM&A 26 54 124 35 15 94 348 (2) — 346 Reclassifications and adjustments: OM&A related to Planned Divestitures — — (3) — — — (3) — 3 — ERP integration costs — — — — — (10) (10) — 10 — Acquisition-related transaction and restructuring costs — — — — — (5) (5) — 5 — Adjusted OM&A 26 54 121 35 15 79 330 (2) 18 346 Taxes, other than income taxes 2 10 10 1 — 1 24 — — 24 Net other operating income — (4) (22) — — — (26) — — (26) Reclassifications and adjustments: Insurance recovery — 2 — — — — 2 — (2) — Adjusted net other operating income — (2) (22) — — — (24) — (2) (26) Adjusted EBITDA (2) 173 191 232 56 47 (80) 619 Depreciation and amortization (17) (105) (138) (28) (2) (9) (299) 3 — (296) Equity income — — — — — (1) (1) — 4 3 Interest income — — — — — 12 12 (1) — 11 Interest expense — — — — — (183) (183) 2 — (181) Realized foreign exchange gain — — — — — 2 2 — — 2 Adjusted earnings (loss) before income taxes (2) 156 86 94 28 45 (259) 150 Reclassifications and adjustments above 3 (106) (60) (14) 3 (15) (189) Finance lease income — 3 8 — — — 11 — — 11 Skookumchuk earnings reclass to Equity income (1) — (4) — — — 4 — — — — Fair value change in contingent consideration payable — — 34 — — — 34 — — 34 Asset impairment (charges) reversals — — (34) 13 — (7) (28) — — (28) Loss on sale of assets and other — — — — — (1) (1) — — (1) Unrealized foreign exchange loss — — — — — (23) (23) — — (23) Earnings (loss) before income taxes 159 (21) 42 27 48 (301) (46) — — (46) The Skookumchuck wind facility has been included on a proportionate basis in the Wind and Solar segment. Adjusted EBITDA, adjusted earnings (loss) before income taxes are non-IFRS measures, are not defined, have no standardized meaning under IFRS and may not be comparable to similar measures presented by other issuers. Refer to the Additional Non-IFRS and Supplementary Financial Measures section of this earnings release. The following table reflects adjusted EBITDA and adjusted earnings (loss) before income taxes by segment and provides reconciliation to earnings (loss) before income taxes for the six months ended June 30, 2024: Hydro Wind & Solar (1) Gas Energy Transition Energy Marketing Corporate Total Equity- accounted investments (1) Reclass adjustments IFRS financials Revenues 211 251 717 296 99 (34) 1,540 (11) — 1,529 Reclassifications and adjustments: Unrealized mark-to-market (gain) loss (4) (13) (81) (20) (2) — (120) — 120 — Decrease in finance lease receivable — 1 9 — — — 10 — (10) — Finance lease income — 3 3 — — — 6 — (6) — Unrealized foreign exchange gain on commodity — — (2) — — — (2) — 2 — Adjusted revenue 207 242 646 276 97 (34) 1,434 (11) 106 1,529 Fuel and purchased power 9 17 239 212 — — 477 — — 477 Carbon compliance costs (recovery) — — 66 — — (34) 32 — — 32 Adjusted gross margin 198 225 341 64 97 — 925 (11) 106 1,020 OM&A 26 44 88 33 19 70 280 (2) — 278 Reclassifications and adjustments: Acquisition-related transaction and restructuring costs — — — — — (7) (7) — 7 — Adjusted OM&A 26 44 88 33 19 63 273 (2) 7 278 Taxes, other than income taxes 2 8 6 2 — — 18 (1) — 17 Net other operating income — (4) (20) — — — (24) — — (24) Adjusted EBITDA (2)(3) 170 177 267 29 78 (63) 658 Depreciation and amortization (15) (90) (111) (31) (2) (9) (258) 3 — (255) Equity income — — — — — (1) (1) — 5 4 Interest income — — — — — 15 15 — — 15 Interest expense — — — — — (149) (149) — — (149) Realized foreign exchange loss (4) — — — — — (9) (9) — — (9) Adjusted earnings (loss) before income taxes (2) 155 87 156 (2) 76 (216) 256 Reclassifications and adjustments above 4 9 71 20 2 (7) 99 Finance lease income — 3 3 — — — 6 — — 6 Skookumchuk earnings reclass to Equity income (1) — (5) — — — 5 — — — — Asset impairment (charges) reversals — (5) — 4 — (5) (6) — — (6) Gain on sale of assets and other (4) — — — 1 — 2 3 — — 3 Unrealized foreign exchange gain (4) — — — — — 3 3 — — 3 Earnings (loss) before income taxes 159 89 230 23 78 (218) 361 — — 361 The Skookumchuck wind facility has been included on a proportionate basis in the Wind and Solar segment. Adjusted EBITDA, adjusted earnings (loss) before income taxes are non-IFRS measures, are not defined, have no standardized meaning under IFRS and may not be comparable to similar measures presented by other issuers. Refer to the Additional Non-IFRS and Supplementary Financial Measures section of this earnings release. During the first quarter of 2025, our Adjusted EBITDA composition was amended to exclude the impact of realized gain (loss) on closed exchange positions and Australian interest income. Therefore, the Company has applied this composition to all previously reported periods. Reconciliation of Earnings Before Income Taxes to Adjusted Net Earnings attributable to common shareholders The following table reflects reconciliation of (loss) earnings before income taxes to adjusted net earnings attributable to common shareholders for the three and six months ended June 30, 2025 and June 30, 2024: Three months ended June 30 Six months ended June 30 2025 2024 2025 2024 (Loss) earnings before income taxes (95) 94 (46) 361 Income tax expense 11 28 18 57 Net (loss) earnings (106) 66 (64) 304 Net (loss) earnings attributable to non-controlling interests (7) (3) (11) 13 Preferred share dividends 13 13 13 13 Net (loss) earnings attributable to common shareholders (112) 56 (66) 278 Adjustments and reclassifications (pre-tax): Adjustments and reclassifications to Revenues 177 14 170 (106) Adjustments and reclassifications to Fuel and purchased power 1 — 3 — Adjustments and reclassifications to OM&A 8 4 18 7 Adjustments and reclassifications to Net other operating income — — (2) — Fair value change in contingent consideration payable (gain) — — (34) — Finance lease income (5) (4) (11) (6) Asset impairment charges 13 5 28 6 Loss (gain) on sale of assets and other — (1) 1 (3) Unrealized foreign exchange loss (gain) (1) 23 — 23 (3) Calculated tax (expense) recovery on adjustments and reclassifications (2) (51) (4) (46) 24 Adjusted net earnings attributable to common shareholders (3) 54 70 84 197 Weighted average number of common shares outstanding in the period 297 303 297 306 Net (loss) income per common share attributable to common shareholders (0.38) 0.18 (0.22) 0.91 Adjustments and reclassifications (net of tax) 0.56 0.05 0.50 (0.26) Adjusted net earnings per common share attributable to common shareholders (3) 0.18 0.23 0.28 0.64 Unrealized foreign exchange (loss) gain is a supplementary financial measure. Refer to the Additional Non-IFRS and Supplementary Financial Measures section of this MD&A for more details. Represents a theoretical tax calculated by applying the Company's consolidated effective tax rate of 23.3 per cent for the three and six months ended June 30, 2025 (three and six months ended June 30, 2024 — 23.3 per cent). The amount does not take into account the impact of different tax jurisdictions the Company's operations are domiciled and does not include the impact of deferred taxes. Adjusted net earnings attributable to common shareholders and Adjusted net earnings per common share attributable to common shareholders are non-IFRS measures, are not defined, have no standardized meaning under IFRS and may not be comparable to similar measures presented by other issuers. The most directly comparable IFRS measures are net earnings attributable to common shareholders and net earnings per share attributable to common shareholders, basic and diluted. Refer to the Non-IFRS financial measures section in this earnings release for more details. Reconciliation of cash flow from operations to FFO and FCF The table below reconciles our cash flow from operating activities to our FFO and FCF: Three months ended June 30 Six months ended June 30 2025 2024 2025 2024 Cash flow from operating activities (1) 157 108 164 352 Change in non-cash operating working capital balances 81 114 198 107 Cash flow from operations before changes in working capital 238 222 362 459 Adjustments Share of adjusted FFO from joint venture (1) 1 2 3 4 Decrease in finance lease receivable 7 5 15 10 Clean energy transition provisions and adjustments — 2 — 2 Brazeau penalties payment — — 33 — Acquisition-related transaction and restructuring costs 2 4 8 7 Other (2) 4 1 10 8 FFO (3) 252 236 431 490 Deduct: Sustaining capital expenditures (1) (57) (40) (80) (40) Dividends paid on preferred shares (13) (13) (26) (26) Distributions paid to subsidiaries' non-controlling interests (2) (5) (2) (24) Principal payments on lease liabilities — (1) (1) (2) Other (3) — (6) — FCF (3) 177 177 316 398 Weighted average number of common shares outstanding in the period 297 303 297 306 Cash flow from operating activities per share 0.53 0.36 0.55 1.15 FFO per share (3) 0.85 0.78 1.45 1.60 FCF per share (3) 0.60 0.58 1.06 1.30 Includes our share of amounts for the Skookumchuck wind facility, an equity-accounted joint venture. Other consists of production tax credits, which is a reduction to tax equity debt, less distributions from an equity-accounted joint venture. These items are not defined and have no standardized meaning under IFRS and may not be comparable to similar measures presented by other issuers. During the first quarter of 2025, our Adjusted EBITDA composition was amended to exclude the impact of realized gain (loss) on closed exchange positions and Australian interest income. Therefore, the Company has applied this composition to all previously reported periods. Refer to the Non-IFRS financial measures and other specified financial measures section in this earnings release. The table below provides a reconciliation of our adjusted EBITDA to our FFO and FCF: Three months ended June 30 Six months ended June 30 $ millions, unless otherwise stated 2025 2024 2025 2024 Adjusted EBITDA (1)(5) 349 316 619 658 Provisions (2) 6 6 6 Net interest expense (2) (66) (57) (138) (105) Current income tax expense (46) (33) (59) (60) Realized foreign exchange gain (loss) (3) 4 (1) 2 (9) Decommissioning and restoration costs settled (11) (12) (20) (19) Other non-cash items 24 17 21 19 FFO (4)(5) 252 236 431 490 Deduct: Sustaining capital expenditures (3)(5) (57) (40) (80) (40) Dividends paid on preferred shares (13) (13) (26) (26) Distributions paid to subsidiaries' non-controlling interests (2) (5) (2) (24) Principal payments on lease liabilities — (1) (1) (2) Other (3) — (6) — FCF (4)(5) 177 177 316 398 Adjusted EBITDA is defined in the Additional IFRS Measures and Non-IFRS Measures of this earnings release and reconciled to earnings (loss) before income taxes above. During the first quarter of 2025, our Adjusted EBITDA composition was amended to exclude the impact of realized gain (loss) on closed exchange positions and Australian interest income. Therefore, the Company has applied this composition to all previously reported periods. Net interest expense is a non-IFRS measure, is not defined and has no standardized meaning under IFRS and may not be comparable to similar measures presented by other issuers. Refer to the table below for detailed calculation. Supplementary financial measure. Refer to the Additional Non-IFRS and Supplementary Financial Measures section of this earnings release. These items are not defined and have no standardized meaning under IFRS and may not be comparable to similar measures presented by other issuers. FFO and FCF are defined in the Non-IFRS financial measures and other specified financial measures section in this earnings release and reconciled to cash flow from operating activities above. Includes our share of amounts for Skookumchuck wind facility, an equity-accounted joint venture. Net interest expense in the reconciliation of our adjusted EBITDA to our FFO and FCF is calculated as follows: Three months ended June 30 Six months ended June 30 2025 2024 2025 2024 Interest expense 88 80 181 149 Less: Interest Income (6) (8) (11) (15) Less: non-cash items (1) (16) (15) (32) (29) Net Interest Expense 66 57 138 105 Non-cash items include accretion of provisions, financing cost amortization and other non-cash items. TransAlta is in the process of filing its unaudited interim Consolidated Financial Statements and accompanying notes, as well as the associated Management's Discussion & Analysis (MD&A). These documents will be available today on the Investors section of TransAlta's website at or through SEDAR at About TransAlta Corporation: TransAlta owns, operates and develops a diverse fleet of electrical power generation assets in Canada, the United States and Australia with a focus on long-term shareholder value. TransAlta provides municipalities, medium and large industries, businesses and utility customers with affordable, energy efficient and reliable power. Today, TransAlta is one of Canada's largest producers of wind power and Alberta's largest producer of thermal generation and hydro-electric power. For over 114 years, TransAlta has been a responsible operator and a proud member of the communities where we operate and where our employees work and live. TransAlta aligns its corporate goals with the UN Sustainable Development Goals and the Future-Fit Business Benchmark, which also defines sustainable goals for businesses. Our reporting on climate change management has been guided by the International Financial Reporting Standards (IFRS) S2 Climate-related Disclosures Standard and the Task Force on Climate-related Financial Disclosures (TCFD) recommendations. TransAlta has achieved a 70 per cent reduction in GHG emissions or 22.7 million tonnes CO2e since 2015 and received an upgraded MSCI ESG rating of AA. For more information about TransAlta, visit our web site at Cautionary Statement Regarding Forward-Looking Information This news release includes "forward-looking information," within the meaning of applicable Canadian securities laws, and "forward-looking statements," within the meaning of applicable United States securities laws, including the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995 (collectively referred to herein as "forward-looking statements"). Forward-looking statements are not facts, but only predictions and generally can be identified by the use of statements that include phrases such as "may", "will", "can", "could", "would", "shall", "believe", "expect", "estimate", "anticipate", "intend", "plan", "forecast", "foresee", "potential", "enable", "continue" or other comparable terminology. These statements are not guarantees of our future performance, events or results and are subject to risks, uncertainties and other important factors that could cause our actual performance, events or results to be materially different from those set out in or implied by the forward-looking statements. In particular, this news release contains forward-looking statements about the following, among other things: the strategic objectives of the Company and that the execution of the Company's strategy will realize value for shareholders; our capital allocation and financing strategy; our sustainability goals and targets, including those in our 2024 Sustainability Report; our 2025 Outlook; our financial and operational performance, including our hedge position; optimizing and diversifying our existing assets; the increasingly contracted nature of our fleet; expectations about strategies for growth and expansion; data centre opportunities, including the AESO's expectation around the timing of execution of Demand Transmission Service contracts and entering into a data centre memorandum of understanding; opportunities for Centralia redevelopment, including the execution of a definitive agreement with our customer for the full capacity of Centralia Unit 2; expectations regarding ongoing and future transactions, including the sale of Poplar Hill; expected costs and schedules for planned projects; expected regulatory processes and outcomes, including in relation to the Alberta restructured energy market; the completion and closing of acquisition and divestiture transactions which are subject to customary closing terms and conditions, the power generation industry and the supply and demand of electricity; the cyclicality of our business; expected outcomes with respect to legal proceedings; the expected impact of future tax and accounting changes; and expected industry, market and economic conditions. The forward-looking statements contained in this news release are based on many assumptions including, but not limited to, the following: no significant changes to applicable laws and regulations; no unexpected delays in obtaining required regulatory approvals; no material adverse impacts to investment and credit markets; no significant changes to power price and hedging assumptions; no significant changes to gas commodity price assumptions and transport costs; no significant changes to interest rates; no significant changes to the demand and growth of renewables generation; no significant changes to the integrity and reliability of our facilities; no significant changes to the Company's debt and credit ratings; no unforeseen changes to economic and market conditions; no significant event occurring outside the ordinary course of business; and realization of expected impacts from ongoing and future transactions. These assumptions are based on information currently available to TransAlta, including information obtained from third-party sources. Actual results may differ materially from those predicted. Factors that may adversely impact what is expressed or implied by forward-looking statements contained in this news release include, but are not limited to: fluctuations in power prices; changes in supply and demand for electricity; our ability to contract our electricity generation for prices that will provide expected returns; our ability to replace contracts as they expire; risks associated with development projects and acquisitions; failure to complete divestitures on the terms and conditions specified or at all; any difficulty raising needed capital in the future on reasonable terms or at all; our ability to achieve our targets relating to ESG; long-term commitments on gas transportation capacity that may not be fully utilized over time; changes to the legislative, regulatory and political environments; environmental requirements and changes in, or liabilities under, these requirements; operational risks involving our facilities, including unplanned outages and equipment failure; disruptions in the transmission and distribution of electricity; reductions in production; impairments and/or writedowns of assets; adverse impacts on our information technology systems and our internal control systems, including increased cybersecurity threats; commodity risk management and energy trading risks; reduced labour availability and ability to continue to staff our operations and facilities; disruptions to our supply chains; climate-change related risks; reductions to our generating units' relative efficiency or capacity factors; general economic risks, including deterioration of equity and debt markets, increasing interest rates or rising inflation; general domestic and international economic and political developments, including potential trade tariffs; industry risk and competition; counterparty credit risk; inadequacy or unavailability of insurance coverage; increases in the Company's income taxes and any risk of reassessments; legal, regulatory and contractual disputes and proceedings involving the Company; reliance on key personnel; and labour relations matters. The foregoing risk factors, among others, are described in further detail under the heading "Governance and Risk Management" in the MD&A, which section is incorporated by reference herein. Readers are urged to consider these factors carefully when evaluating the forward-looking statements and are cautioned not to place undue reliance on them. The forward-looking statements included in this news release are made only as of the date hereof and we do not undertake to publicly update these forward-looking statements to reflect new information, future events or otherwise, except as required by applicable laws. The purpose of the financial outlooks contained herein is to give the reader information about management's current expectations and plans and readers are cautioned that such information may not be appropriate for other purposes. Note: All financial figures are in Canadian dollars unless otherwise indicated.


Globe and Mail
an hour ago
- Globe and Mail
Alibaba Doubles Down on AI Margins: Time to Hold or Cut Your Losses?
's BABA aggressive AI strategy is rapidly becoming an expensive gamble that threatens to destroy shareholder value rather than create it. Despite appearing cheap on traditional metrics, Alibaba represents a classic value trap where superficial attractiveness masks deeper structural problems. Alibaba continues to trade at a premium valuation with a Value Score of C. The market has priced in AI upside while underestimating execution risks and capital intensity required for meaningful transformation. While management trumpets AI as the company's salvation, the underlying fundamentals reveal a deteriorating business model facing relentless competitive pressure and unsustainable capital requirements that make BABA a clear sell for 2025. Margin Compression Accelerates Despite AI Hype The most alarming development for Alibaba investors is the accelerating margin deterioration masked by AI revenue growth narratives. Mizuho expects Alibaba to experience meaningful margin contraction in the second quarter, with competitive pressure affecting margins continuing through the second half of 2025 and into 2026. The investment bank has slashed its June 2025 quarter EBITDA forecast from 55 billion RMB to 45 billion RMB, representing an 18% reduction that signals serious profitability concerns. More troubling is the company's cash flow destruction. Free cash flow plummeted 76% to RMB3,743 million compared to RMB15,361 million in the same quarter of 2024, mainly attributed to increased cloud infrastructure expenditure. This dramatic deterioration exposes the hidden cost of Alibaba's AI ambitions - massive capital expenditures that are hollowing out the company's financial strength while delivering questionable returns. The cloud business, supposedly Alibaba's crown jewel, requires enormous ongoing investment just to remain competitive. Despite triple-digit AI product revenue growth for six consecutive quarters, these gains come at an unsustainable cost structure that suggests the business model is fundamentally flawed rather than temporarily challenged. Competitive Annihilation From Multiple Fronts Alibaba faces an unprecedented competitive assault that threatens its core market position. Competition in China's e-commerce and cloud markets continues to intensify. Domestic rivals like PDD Holdings PDD and ByteDance's Douyin maintain pressure on e-commerce operations, while international cloud providers like Microsoft MSFT and Amazon AMZN compete for enterprise customers. With the stock declining 7.9% over the past six months while underperforming the Zacks Internet-Commerce industry and the Zacks Retail-Wholesale sector, investors are paying elevated prices for a deteriorating business. BABA Underperforms Peers & Sector in 6 Months PDD Holdings reported 94% year-over-year rise compared to Alibaba's 9% growth in the same quarter, demonstrating how quickly market dynamics can shift against established players. The emergence of social commerce and live-streaming sales channels represents an existential threat to Alibaba's traditional marketplace model, requiring massive investment in areas where the company lacks competitive advantages. Douyin increased gross merchandise volume (GMV) by 46% year over year between August 2023 and July 2024, while Alibaba's flagship marketplaces Taobao and Tmall posted only 5% GMV growth. This stark performance gap illustrates how rapidly Alibaba is losing market share to more agile competitors. Douyin is integrating its supermarket and hourly delivery services, heating up competition in China's instant commerce sector against Alibaba. This forces Alibaba into expensive defensive battles across multiple fronts while competitors focus resources on specific market segments. Regulatory and Earnings Deterioration The regulatory environment continues deteriorating with new e-commerce rules requiring platforms to reduce merchant fees, directly pressuring Alibaba's already-strained margins. The Zacks Consensus Estimate for fiscal 2026 earnings indicates a decline of 4.77% year-over-year to $8.58 per share. The market appears to be pessimistic about Alibaba's growth trajectory. This continued earnings contraction occurs despite modest revenue growth, highlighting operational inefficiencies and competitive pressure. The company's strategic AI pivot requires patience and capital that rational investors should be unwilling to provide, given superior alternatives available in both technology and e-commerce sectors. Alibaba's transformation story may eventually succeed, but the execution risks, competitive threats, and capital intensity make it an unsuitable investment for 2025. Conclusion Investors seeking growth should look elsewhere rather than hoping Alibaba can successfully navigate its mounting challenges while simultaneously funding an expensive AI transformation. The risk-reward profile simply doesn't justify maintaining exposure to this deteriorating situation. BABA stock currently carries a Zacks Rank #5 (Strong Sell). You can see the complete list of today's Zacks #1 Rank (Strong Buy) stocks here. See our %%CTA_TEXT%% report – free today! 7 Best Stocks for the Next 30 Days Want the latest recommendations from Zacks Investment Research? Today, you can download 7 Best Stocks for the Next 30 Days. Click to get this free report Inc. (AMZN): Free Stock Analysis Report Microsoft Corporation (MSFT): Free Stock Analysis Report Alibaba Group Holding Limited (BABA): Free Stock Analysis Report PDD Holdings Inc. Sponsored ADR (PDD): Free Stock Analysis Report


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ScanSource SCSC Q4 2025 Earnings Call Transcript
DATE Thursday, August 21, 2025 at 10:30 a.m. ET CALL PARTICIPANTS Chief Executive Officer — Mike Baur Chief Financial Officer — Steve Jones Need a quote from a Motley Fool analyst? Email pr@ TAKEAWAYS Net Sales -- Nearly 9% year-over-year growth in net sales for Q4 FY2025, with full-year net sales (GAAP) just over $3 billion for FY2025, a year-over-year decline of 6.7%. Adjusted EBITDA -- Adjusted EBITDA grew 13% year over year in Q4 FY2025, and a 2.8% increase for the full year, reaching $144.7 million in adjusted EBITDA for FY2025. Non-GAAP Net Income -- Non-GAAP net income grew 17% year over year in Q4 FY2025, Non-GAAP net income of $85.1 million represents an increase of 9.6% for the full year fiscal 2025. Non-GAAP EPS -- Q4 FY2025 non-GAAP EPS rose 27.5% year over year to $1.02; Full-year fiscal 2025 non-GAAP EPS increased 15.9% to $3.57, benefiting from $107 million in share repurchases during FY2025. Specialty Technology Solutions Segment -- and 16% quarter over quarter for Q4 FY2025, driven by double-digit gains in mobility, barcode, physical security, and managed connectivity; $30 million–$40 million of revenue in Q4 FY2025 attributed to large deal pull-ins. Specialty Tech Gross Profit -- with a gross margin nearly flat at 10.3% for Q4 FY2025 and adjusted EBITDA margin rose 35 basis points to 3.6% for the segment in Q4 FY2025. Recurring Revenue as % of Gross Profit -- Increased to approximately 11% for Specialty Technology Solutions segment in Q4 FY2025 and 32.8% of consolidated gross profit for FY2025, compared to 27.5% in FY2024. Intellisys and Advisory Segment -- while adjusted EBITDA declined 4% due to higher SG&A investment; Annual end-user billing for Intellisys increased 4.5% year over year to $2.8 billion with double-digit year-over-year growth in CX products during FY2025. Balance Sheet -- Ended Q4 FY2025 with $126 million in cash; net debt leverage ratio at approximately zero on a trailing twelve-month adjusted EBITDA basis at the end of Q4 FY2025. Free Cash Flow -- Full-year free cash flow of $104 million, representing 122% conversion of non-GAAP net income in FY2025. Adjusted ROIC -- Adjusted ROIC for the quarter was 14.9%, Full-year adjusted ROIC was 13.6%. Share Repurchases -- Share repurchases totaled $25 million for the quarter. Acquisitions -- Resource and Advantech deals were cited as accretive to EPS and ROIC for both Q4 FY2025 and FY2025, and positively impacting recurring revenue composition; active M&A pipeline for both segments outlined. FY 2026 Guidance -- Full-year net sales are targeted at $3.1 billion–$3.13 billion for FY2026; adjusted EBITDA is projected at $150 million–$160 million for FY2026; at least $80 million in free cash flow is expected for FY2026, with management projecting revenue acceleration in the second half and low single-digit growth in the first half. Three-Year Strategic Goals -- Updated targets introduced for adjusted EBITDA margin, recurring revenue contribution, ROIC, gross profit growth, and a new free cash flow metric, explicitly replacing older midterm targets. Capital Allocation Framework -- Management reiterated commitment to balancing M&A and share repurchases, targeting net debt leverage in the 1–2x adjusted EBITDA range. SUMMARY ScanSource (NASDAQ:SCSC) reported net sales growth nearing 9% year over year in Q4 FY2025, with profitability metrics outpacing revenue gains. The Specialty Technology Solutions segment delivered standout quarter-over-quarter (16%) and year-over-year (9%) net sales growth in Q4 FY2025, aided by substantial late-quarter large deal activity. Recurring revenue became a greater part of the gross profit mix, as recent acquisitions bolstered income quality and improved overall margins. Strategic investments increased SG&A expenses in the Intellisys segment, aiming to restore growth by prioritizing strategic partners and introducing new supplier models. Fiscal 2026 (FY2026) guidance anticipates a return to sales growth, improved adjusted EBITDA, and continued robust free cash flow as revenue accelerates in the second half of the year, underpinned by a refreshed three-year strategic plan focused on margin expansion and recurring revenue. CFO Steve Jones said, "Q4 was a strong close to our fiscal year. We delivered on our guidance for revenue, adjusted EBITDA, and free cash flow. Net sales returned to growth, and we delivered strong profitability." Company set new three-year strategic goals targeting higher adjusted EBITDA margin, growing the proportion of recurring revenue in gross profit, and monitoring gross profit growth as a primary business-growth metric. CEO Mike Baur noted, "We see hardware, plus software, plus services convergence as the future of technology distribution. This is the vision for our strategic plan and the new three-year strategic goals" Management indicated an active M&A pipeline, and expects further acquisitions to accelerate the shift toward recurring revenue, aided by small but impactful deals. Brazil operations remain profitable and demonstrate a successful recurring revenue business model that U.S. operations are targeting, though FX headwinds and macroeconomic issues persist. There is ongoing macroeconomic uncertainty impacting deal timing and volume. INDUSTRY GLOSSARY SG&A: Selling, General, and Administrative expenses; includes all non-production operating costs such as salaries, commissions, marketing, and overhead. Recurring Revenue: Revenue from sources expected to be consistent and repeat over time, such as subscriptions, maintenance contracts, or managed services. Converged Solution: An offering that integrates hardware, software, and services into a unified solution for end customers. UCaaS: Unified Communications as a Service—cloud-based delivery of communications services such as voice, messaging, and video. CCaaS: Contact Center as a Service—cloud-based customer interaction solutions generally focused on call centers and customer service operations. CX: Customer Experience—solutions focused on optimizing interactions with end users, including UCaaS, CCaaS, and AI-enabled offerings. ROIC: Return on Invested Capital; a key measure of capital efficiency and value creation. Adjusted EBITDA: Earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation, and amortization, adjusted for items such as stock-based compensation, restructuring, or acquisition costs. Gross Profit Margin: Gross profit as a percentage of revenue, measuring the profitability of core business operations before accounting for SG&A and other indirect costs. Free Cash Flow Conversion: Ratio of free cash flow to net income, reflecting how effectively accounting earnings convert into available cash. Full Conference Call Transcript Mike Baur: Thank you, Mary, and thanks to everyone for joining us today. We are excited about the growth opportunities ahead for our channel partners and the expanding role of technology distribution. The convergence of IT, connectivity, and cloud computing is propelling a shift toward converged solutions that are redefining success in technology distribution. We are the leading technology distributor uniquely positioned to build cutting-edge skills, capabilities, and expertise to excel in a connected cloud-driven world. We believe end users face increasing complexity when making technology investment decisions. Because of this complexity, end users are looking to the indirect channel for their technology solutions. Given the need for integration and the number of solutions, especially as advanced technologies like AI become part of the solution, our multiple sales channels are a key competitive advantage for ScanSource, Inc. With our suppliers as they seek new routes to market, our channel partners have different skills and capabilities, and for certain opportunities, they will take advantage of additional services that ScanSource, Inc. can deliver to end users on behalf of our partners. We are building capabilities that end users require and our partners demand in our converging technology ecosystem. This includes an innovative supplier portfolio, financial enablement, expert pre and post-sales engineering support, powerful tools, marketing support, and an exceptional customer experience. Last quarter, we announced the creation of LaunchPoint, a new business development team that will identify and assist emerging innovative technology growth companies as they are getting ready for channel success. The LaunchPoint team has an active pipeline of innovative suppliers and has recently signed contracts with companies offering products to enhance our smart warehouse initiative, which includes private cellular networks, robotics, drones, and additional IoT solutions. We have channel partners in both segments that have end-user demand for converging solutions that include hardware, software, and services. To illustrate with an example, we have a channel sales partner who developed a converged solution for a leading auto parts retailer that bundled wireless connectivity plans with 30,000 mobile computing devices. Our ability to support the converged solution was a differentiator, allowing the partner to win the deal and providing the end user with an improved business outcome. We see hardware, plus software, plus services convergence as the future of technology distribution. This is the vision for our strategic plan and the new three-year strategic goals that Steve will introduce in his remarks. Our goals reflect our confidence in our growth strategy to deliver complex converging solutions for our partner ecosystem that will increase our addressable market. I'll now turn the call over to Steve to take you through our financial results and outlook for fiscal year 2026. Steve Jones: Thanks, Mike. Q4 was a strong close to our fiscal year. We delivered on our guidance for revenue, adjusted EBITDA, and free cash flow. Net sales returned to growth, and we delivered strong profitability. Net sales for the quarter grew almost 9% year over year, while adjusted EBITDA grew 13% and non-GAAP net income grew 17% over last year. Our Q4 non-GAAP earnings per share of $1.02 grew 27.5% year over year. Now turning to our segments, I want to call your attention to additional information that we included in our earnings infographic on our key technologies and growth drivers. I'll start with our specialty technology solutions segment. Net sales increased 9% year over year and 16% quarter over quarter with broad-based hardware growth in North America led by double-digit growth in mobility and barcode, physical security, and managed connectivity. We also benefited from some large deals that were pulled in late in the quarter. We estimate the pull-ins contributed $30 million to $40 million of revenue in Q4. Gross profit followed revenues growing 8% year over year, reflecting a higher mix of hardware for the quarter. For the segment, the percent of gross profits from recurring revenues totaled approximately 11%. Segment gross profit margin was similar to last year at 10.3%, while the segment adjusted EBITDA margin was up 35 basis points to 3.6%. In our Intellisys and Advisory segment, net sales and gross profits increased 1% year over year, including the positive contribution from our Resource of acquisition. While adjusted EBITDA for the segment declined 4% due to increasing investments in SG&A to drive future billings growth and expand our technical capabilities in emerging technologies like AI. Annual end-user billing for Intellisys increased 4.5% year over year to bring annualized net billings to approximately $2.8 billion, including double-digit growth year over year in CX, which includes UCaaS, CCaaS, and AI-enabled CX solutions. This segment operates in a very competitive landscape as sales models and partner needs evolve. We believe that we have a unique competitive position with the combined capabilities from our businesses in both segments, as we enable the channel model of the future. As we look back on our full-year results, we delivered strong profit growth while facing tough market conditions. Full-year net sales totaled just over $3 billion, a year-over-year decline of 6.7%. While gross profits of $408.6 million and adjusted EBITDA of $144.7 million grew by 2.4% and 2.8%, respectively. Gross profit margins increased 120 basis points year over year to 13.4%, and adjusted EBITDA margins increased 45 basis points to 4.76%. For the year, recurring revenues represented 32.8% of our consolidated gross profits compared to 27.5% last year. The higher contributions and concentration in the is the primary driver of our improved margins. Non-GAAP net income of $85.1 million is an increase of 9.6% over last year, and full-year free cash flow of $104 million represents a 122% conversion of our non-GAAP net income. Non-GAAP EPS of $3.57 increased by 15.9% year over year, including the benefit of share repurchases, which totaled $107 million. Going a bit deeper on our balance sheet and cash flow, we ended Q4 with $126 million in cash, and a net debt leverage ratio at approximately zero on a trailing twelve-month adjusted EBITDA basis. Adjusted ROIC for the quarter is 14.9%, and full-year adjusted ROIC is 13.6%. Our Resource of an advantage acquisitions completed last August were accretive to both EPS and ROIC for both the quarter and the full-year results. Share repurchases for the quarter totaled $25 million, and we're pleased with the contributions from our two acquisitions, what they bring to our channel capabilities and our strategic plans. We have an active pipeline of acquisition targets for both segments. These targets could expand our capabilities and help us drive additional value across our partner ecosystem while supporting our strategic goals. As we start our new fiscal year, we think about delivering on our strategic plans, we want to clarify our capital allocation framework. We'll continue to maintain our discipline in evaluating M&A opportunities and believe there's room for both acquisitions and share repurchases while maintaining a targeted net debt leverage of one to two times adjusted EBITDA. We want to provide FY '26 full-year outlook. And we believe that the full-year net sales will range between $3.1 billion and $3.13 billion. Full-year adjusted EBITDA will range between $150 million and $160 million, and we will deliver at least $80 million in free cash flow. We also believe that revenue will accelerate in the second half of our fiscal year and expect low single-digit growth for the first half as we continue to navigate the dynamic macro environment. Our adjusted EBITDA is expected to grow year over year and includes investments we believe will help us drive expanding margins. Our free cash flow expectations reflect the confidence we have in our team's ability to manage working capital while taking advantage of growth opportunities. Today, we're also introducing new three-year strategic goals. Our new goals are included in the infographic that accompanies our earnings release and our updated investor presentation posted on our website. Our new goals replace our midterm goals we initiated several years ago and successfully delivered. We updated our targets for adjusted EBITDA margin, the percent of gross profits from recurring revenue, and ROIC. We've included GP growth as a better metric to represent business growth, and we're introducing a new free cash flow metric. Our goals reflect our confidence in our strategy and the drivers we have to create long-term value for our shareholders. We'll now open it up for questions. Operator: Thank you. At this time, we'll conduct a question and answer session. As a reminder, to ask a question, you'll need to press 11 on your telephone and wait for your name to be announced. To withdraw your question, And our first question comes from the line of Adam Tindle of RJ. Your line is now open. Adam Tindle: Okay. Thanks. Good morning, and congrats on a strong finish to the year-end. I just wanted to start on the midterm targets. I noticed that free cash flow as a percent of net income was included. Steve, I wonder if you could maybe just expand a little bit on why include that metric. Obviously, I was happy to see it, but just a little bit more on the conversation on including that metric. And if we start doing some math here, you know, based on your current leverage, which is fairly minimal and in the future cash generation, we're gonna have quite a bit of cash coming in. I think you mentioned it on there, but if you could just talk a little bit more about the capital allocation priorities with that incremental cash. And then I have a follow-up. Thanks. Steve Jones: Sure, Adam. Thanks, and good morning. When we thought about the free cash flow conversion metric for our long-term outlook that we provided, we wanted to do two things. One, we wanted to build on the back of what we said before that we were building this cash culture. This, I think, really puts a stake in the ground for us in how we're thinking about the business. We also think this is a key reason why our financial position is very attractive, is to have this kind of metric and this kind of discipline in generating free cash. When we think about our capital allocation framework, we want to do two things. If you look at the combined set of targets that we have for our three-year goals, you'll see several things. One is we need to expand our GP. We also are expanding that percent of recurring revenue. That will come through acquisition and faster growth than some of these emerging technologies that we have. But we also think it's important to balance that with returning cash to shareholders when we don't have opportunities to deploy that to help us hit those goals. Adam Tindle: Okay. Got it. Yeah. I wonder if it might make sense at some point to kinda, you know, split up and do a percentage of cash flow for shareholder return or a pie chart or something like that. Is that something you guys would consider? Steve Jones: Still early in our ability to generate cash. You know, we think we've gone out here and put some pretty aggressive three-year goals out there. Adam Tindle: Okay. That's fair. And maybe, Mike, as a follow-up, obviously, as we kind of look at the segment results, the Intellisys and advisory segment has very healthy margin in total. But the adjusted EBITDA, I think you said, was down for the year. I just wonder if you might expand a little bit more on how you're thinking about that segment strategically. And on a forward basis, I think in the press release, it talked a little bit about investments expected in fiscal 2026. I wonder if maybe it's related to that segment or if you could expand on the nature of the investments that you're thinking about. Thanks. Mike Baur: Yes, sure, Adam. Good morning. We believe that the opportunity to grow the Intellisys business is substantial. And one of the things that we learned over the last couple of years as we saw the competitive pressures from some of the PE-backed companies, there was a land grab for partners and their business. And along the way, we did everything we could in our old model to retain that. And what we are learning is that we need to do some new things. And a couple of those that we've already invested in last year that really will see the payoff over time is a different partner segmentation strategy to make sure that we're providing the right mix of services for partners. We tended to treat our partners mostly based just on volume historically, and we've changed that. And under Ken's leadership, our team has added more headcount to focus on strategic partners. And a strategic partner for us going forward is a partner that can grow. In the past, we were frankly having partners that were earning a lot of resources and taking resources from our teams, but they weren't growing. And so we really are driving a new sales demand strategy around finding the places that growth is happening and putting our resources there. So we've done a significant amount of reorganization within the Intellisys team. And what we've learned is that our partners trust us. That we have this level of trust about the simple stuff for us, which is making sure that partners get paid on time and accurately. And we believe that we're still the most attractive distributor for these trusted advisers. But we're also cognizant that we have these private equity-based competitors who are still trying to do a land grab. So we're gonna use our balance sheet to better support the growth partners that we believe can drive future opportunities for us. So we're gonna invest, in some cases, our balance sheet with these partners. And we've talked about this in the past. Some of our programs, we've got some new names for them, but there's one we call a revenue accelerator program, where we'll invest alongside the partner if they are committed to making sure all of that future revenue comes to us exclusively. So those are the things that we've started in FY '25. That we'll see happen and pay off throughout the year. But we certainly saw in '25, kind of a disappointing growth year because we didn't make these investments in FY '24. So I really believe we've got the right team. We've got the right programs, and we're making the right investments because we still believe this business can grow substantially. Operator: Thank you. One moment for our next question. And our next question comes from the line of Keith Housum of North Coast Research. Your line is now open. Keith Housum: Great. Good morning, guys, and congratulations on a good quarter. And thanks for the added information and the infographic on the businesses and what makes up the different segments. Much appreciated. Just kind of piggybacking on Adam's question in terms of the Intellisys business, it looks like sequentially, you know, the revenue is down in that segment, which is a first. I understand there's some competitive challenges there. But perhaps can you talk about the expectations here as you look into '26? And how quickly you can turn that around. And is it possible to quantify how much in strategic investments you need to put forward during the year? Mike Baur: Yeah, Keith. Mike again. You know, we've been looking at this, frankly, for more than a year. We saw this, and we identified it, I think, three years ago that there was the, as we all know, there was revenue pressure because we had margin pressure from the land grab by some of the PE-backed competitors. Who are willing to make little to no margin to get partners to move their business from Intellisys to them based purely on a commission split change. So we had to decide how to react to that. In some cases, we lost some partners that went away. And what we decided to do was let's start. Let's build for the longer term. And one of the things we did last year that I know you remember is we created this new strategy around channel exchange. And the reason for that was we needed to start adding new suppliers to help drive growth too. We had not really added a lot of significant suppliers along the way. And we needed the suppliers that some of the strategic partners that we're trying to recruit that I talked about a few minutes ago, the ones that can drive growth, these strategic partners were asking us for suppliers that transacted differently than the old Intellisys model. So the channel exchange transaction model, without getting too much in the weeds, is allowing us to add new suppliers. We just added Sophos and Trustify. And we think those are examples of the kind of new opportunities that are gonna be incremental to our revenue. And so these aren't suppliers that'll replace existing revenue. So we've got a pipeline of new suppliers coming online. And, again, as we all know, we've been following this Intellisys model. We won't see all of that show up in our revenue as quickly as we'd like, but there are new orders and deals being done now. And we've modeled for FY '26 a reasonable approach to growth. What that means is we're doing everything we can to add sales resources, financial enablement, and new suppliers so that as we exit '26, we expect to be back on a significant growth trajectory. Keith Housum: Great. And as we think about the guidance for next year, perhaps maybe some puts and takes on that. Again, come back to adjusted EBITDA guidance you guys gave at the low end of the range, it's only 3% growth, but yet at the top end of the range, it's obviously in the double digits. How are you thinking about, I guess, what has to go right, what has to go wrong in order to meet the top and bottom end of your ranges there? Steve Jones: Well, Keith, you know, as we were talking about last year, similar as we're setting here this year looking at FY '26, we see the growth coming in the second half. We see a faster growth trajectory coming in the second half as we're still in this kind of choppy tariff and interest rate environment. So, you know, the low end of the range, both ends of the range include our investments we need to make. What Mike was talking about in Intellisys, what we're talking about in our other businesses, we've got investments in that guidance. What we'll do as we go along is we'll throttle those investments to make sure that we manage to that EBITDA margin. And so that's how we're thinking about it. The other thing that can swing through there a little bit is mix. And as we think about the mix, the mix can move around a bit on our EBITDA. And so those are the key things that we're thinking about as we think about that range. Keith Housum: Great. Appreciate it. And maybe just one more for me if I don't mind. You know, talk on a three-year strategic goals, getting your recurring revenue as a driver of gross profit up to, you know, building towards 50%. Obviously, a pretty massive move considering the 31% you have here in this quarter or so. How much of M&A is in part of that is involved in versus what you guys believe you can do organically? And then if it's '26 coming to be, like, a rebuilding year for that, is this really a '27, '28, you know, fiscal year performance? Steve Jones: Well, Keith, I'll go back to what we called out in our prepared remarks. You know, we went from 27.5%, I think, to almost 33% for the year. Recurring revenue as a percent of our gross profits. A lot of that is because of our acquisitions, and they weren't big. But they're very impactful. We also see that those advanced emerging technologies, they're gonna transact more in that netted down revenue space. And so that will help us grow as well. And I think Mike has some comments. Mike Baur: Yeah. And one other thing we added in our materials we provided, I don't know if you had a chance to look at them yet, Keith, but on page 12 of our supporting materials, we added a new schedule which shows the recurring revenue gross profit and how it's changed over time. And if you look at that, we're going in the specialty technology area. We were 6.6% back in '24. And now we're at eleven. And so we're seeing what Steve just said. We're making some acquisitions that seem to be fairly small on the scale of the Advantech and ResourceV. But look at how quickly they can change and add to our recurring revenue contribution. So we believe, and if you remember from our last, I think it was our last call, I talked about the fact that we have four presidents that each have a strategy around acquisitions. And each of them have a real focus on how do they increase the recurring revenue in their particular business. So we feel very good about the ability to get on this path towards 50% even as we exit '26. Keith Housum: Great. Thank you. Good luck. Operator: Thank you. One moment for our next question. And our next question comes from the line of Gregory Burns with Sidoti. Your line is now open. Greg Burns: Good morning. You mentioned some strong, I guess, broad-based growth in the technology segment. Were there any detractors though in the quarter? Steve Jones: Well, Greg, good morning. We continue to have a very profitable business in our communications business, and that's probably the one that we've talked about for a very long time. It does not have a real growth path to it, but it is very profitable for us. And it helps us also sell other solutions. So I would say that's the one that probably is setting out there that's the slower growth. I'd also just kind of send you to our infographic. And if you look at that specialty technology segment, you can kind of see how that breaks out. Greg Burns: Great. Thanks. And then can you maybe update us on the outlook for Brazil? Any changes there and what your expectations are for that market? Mike Baur: Well, you know, Brazil is an interesting dynamic for us. They're growing in local currency. And they're now getting ready to lap a pretty significant supplier shift out of some channels. And so we like where Brazil is going. We're just gonna have to settle through these FX headwinds that we're seeing. And, Greg, this is Mike. One other comment to that. We talked about Brazil a lot recently. And what I want to remind our investors is Brazil's business model is what we're trying to move to, frankly, in the US. They've been selling many more products that are in the cloud, recurring. They've been selling converged solutions before we started calling them converged solutions. And so, really, because in Brazil, we're one of the dominant players. We are not a small distributor. There's not the scenario where we can't get suppliers like we have in some cases in the US. So we really love the fact that we've got a business that is profitable. That we have a very engaged team, and they're able to recruit suppliers in Brazil and sell the suppliers on the value proposition of ScanSource, Inc. and our channel. A way that we're still getting suppliers to understand in the US. So we love that business. We hate the economic environment they go to as a country and a political environment. But it's a profitable business, and we have a very strong management team that understands exactly what we're trying to accomplish now in the US with our recurring revenue business. Greg Burns: Great. Thank you. Operator: You bet. Thank you. One moment for our next question. And our next question comes from the line of Damian Karas of UBS. Your line is now open. Damian Karas: Hey. Good morning, everyone. Congrats on the progress. Steve Jones: Thank you. Yeah. Thank you. Damian Karas: So I just have a couple more specific questions. First, I wanted to ask you about barcoding and mobility solutions and what your expectation is there for that part of the business that you have factored into your fiscal 2026 guidance. And I think, typically, like, the fourth calendar quarter of the year, so your guys' second quarter is when a lot of the larger project activity often consummates for that part of the business. Just curious if you think there might be still larger projects that are fewer in number, comparable level maybe to what you saw last year or if there's the possibility that there might be a larger project ramp as we kind of get through the end of this calendar year. Steve Jones: Yeah. Thanks for the question. So, you know, when we think about the mobility and barcode technologies, what we talked about in our remarks is that was a great growth area for the fourth quarter. What we also want to caveat is we're still facing in our large deals, particularly, some uncertainty in the macro environment that we're not sure if that's a first half or second half growth trajectory for us. So I think it's a bit of a wait and see on when those big deals start rolling out. We saw some of that happen in the fourth quarter. We were happy to see it. But it's not widespread yet. Damian Karas: Really helpful. Thank you. And then I guess kind of a new news item in the last month is Zebra acquiring Elo. I was just wondering if you could maybe discuss ScanSource, Inc.'s relationship with Elo and do you think that transaction potentially changes anything on your side for either of those product categories or coding and point of sale? Mike Baur: This is Mike. I'll take that one. We try not to comment on our partners' acquisitions or their strategy per se, but our relationship with both of them, I can't comment on. We've been a long-time partner with Elo. Obviously, Zebra as well. And I talked to both of their CEOs about it and what they're trying to accomplish. And for ScanSource, Inc., what is interesting is in general, to be very transparent, consolidation of suppliers rarely helps us. Okay? It only helps us if there is a creation of a new market opportunity. And so what we're hoping to see from something like this is they're gonna create new solutions that will go to the market in a way that ScanSource, Inc. and our channel partners can benefit from. And there is this idea that could happen. And we talked about throughout our prepared remarks the idea of Converge Solutions, which is a multi-vendor thought. And what that typically means is no one vendor can provide all of the pieces to that. Now that you have Zebra and Elo together, there's still gonna need to be other parts of that solution that we can provide. And anything they're gonna do to invest in retail is good for us. We've always had a strong retail channel presence. We think that this is gonna drive new technology at the front end of retail, which is what they communicated. We think that's nothing but positive for ScanSource, Inc. and our channel partners. Damian Karas: Very interesting. Thank you very much for your thoughts. Good luck. Steve Jones: You bet. Thank you. Operator: Thank you. Again, as a reminder to ask a question, you'll need to press 11 on your telephone. I'm showing no further questions at this time. I'll now turn it back to Steve Jones for closing remarks. Steve Jones: Yes. Thank you for joining us today. We expect to hold our next conference call to discuss September 30 quarterly results on Thursday, November 6, at approximately 10:30 AM. Operator: Thank you for your participation in today's conference. This does conclude the program. You may now disconnect. Where to invest $1,000 right now When our analyst team has a stock tip, it can pay to listen. 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