Bucks GM Jon Horst talks Kyle Kuzma's role, team versatility and more

New York Times

11-02-2025

MILWAUKEE — Before a 125-111 loss to the Golden State Warriors on Monday night, Milwaukee Bucks general manager Jon Horst sat with reporters to discuss the team's moves at this year's NBA trade deadline. After the conversation, we published a few of Horst's most notable answers, including how difficult it was for him to trade one of the best players in franchise history, Khris Middleton.
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'It has to be the hardest thing transactionally that I've ever done, from the human side of it, the roster side of it, the culture of the team, our community,' Horst said. 'I'm incredibly close with Khris personally, his family. I love them. I probably have more Middleton jerseys in my house than anything and will still have more Middleton jerseys in my house than anything.
'So not comfortable with it.'
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Now, we're going deeper and exploring other topics. Here are five takeaways from Horst's meeting with reporters about the moves the Bucks' moves at the deadline.
(Editor's note: This interview has been lightly edited for clarity and length.)
Question: Middleton was efficient as both a scorer and a playmaker. He was shooting 51.2 percent from the field and 40.7 percent from 3 this season and he's been in the 95th percentile in assist percentage at his position for much of his career. He's showcased an ability to take and make tough shots in big moments.
Those things are all valuable when you get to the postseason where things become more difficult. How do you think Kyle Kuzma can replicate those things as the team's No. 3 option (behind Giannis Antetokounmpo and Damian Lillard)?
Horst: Hopefully, I think that it's more about, 'How do we make the top two guys their best selves?' and 'How does everyone else play their role around them?' And I think in Kyle you have a skill set that will allow him to play a lot of different roles based on the matchup, based on who we're playing, in the ways that Giannis and Dame need them.
Some nights it could be handling, it could be as an additional roller, it could be an additional spacer, someone to push it in transition, so Giannis isn't the only one pushing it. I think there's a variety of ways in which he can fill different roles because of his versatility that makes our (No. 1) and (No. 2) even better. And I think in different ways, that's what Gary Trent hopefully will do and Taurean (Prince) and Brook (Lopez) has done and Bobby (Portis) does. Khris has done that also, but Khris has done it as a primary guy and I don't think that Kyle is going to have that same load.
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And I think that he's going to be surrounded. … You gotta go all the way back, but some of LeBron (James') best lineups (with the Lakers) were when Kyle Kuzma was in with him and Kyle wasn't the second best player, per se, on those teams. I mean, he was maybe the third or the fourth. Kyle is 100 percent committed to buying into a role. He's incredibly motivated to be here and to win and excited. I think it's more about him buying in as a role player than solidifying himself as like, 'I'm the third guy, so make sure I get my touches and I do this and that.'
I just think it'll look different based on matchups and night in and night out. And that's the bet. If he does that and Brook does that and Bobby does that and Gary and all these guys, Dame and Giannis should be able to be their best selves, and that really is our best chance to win.
Takeaway: The Bucks are no longer working on a big three model of roster building.
Horst was very complimentary of Kuzma's play, but Horst made it clear the Bucks are going to look to Antetokounmpo and Lillard in crunchtime. Kuzma is not going to be asked to be a part of a big three. Rather than scoring 20 points per game or creating shots for himself or others in crunchtime, the Bucks will look to Kuzma to be an elite role player.
When the Bucks tried to use Middleton in the starting lineup for seven games this season, Lillard struggled to maintain the aggressiveness the Bucks need from him on a nightly basis. Antetokounmpo and Lillard talked about how everyone's roles were clearer when Middleton came off the bench, and that gave Middleton the opportunity to work on the ball and run the team's second unit. Rather than working through those issues and trying to figure out how the team could have three playmakers on the floor at the same time, the Bucks opted to jettison Middleton and lean further into their superstar duo.
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Ultimately, relying on the league's top-scoring duo is logical. Making it as easy for Antetokounmpo and Lillard to dominate games and feel as comfortable as possible is smart, and it may very well be the right decision. The Dallas Mavericks used that model to get to the NBA Finals last season with Luka Dončić and Kyrie Irving.
But the playoffs are different from the regular season, and Dončić and Irving are different from Antetokounmpo and Lillard. It is harder to create offense in the postseason, and having more players to create and to make tough shots is often a team's best bet. Having Kuzma play the role of an elite role player may work for the Bucks, but it will be fascinating to see if the Bucks can make things work with a different model in the postseason when defenses get tougher and the game slows down.
Question: When Doc Rivers talked to reporters about the team's trade deadline moves, Middleton's health was the third reason he listed when asked about the team's trade deadline motivations. How much did Middleton's health and availability play into your decision to move him at the trade deadline?
Horst: It's not Doc's job or my job or the owners' (job), everyone, for us to always agree on every element of everything. We all come at it for different reasons. My job, I always believe, is to figure out how we can bring it all together and make a great decision. We always talk about discussing, debating, deciding, executing and then aligning at the end of it.
And so for him, I don't know if it was a major contributor or a contributor. For me, it was very minimal. I have — and still would have had — a big belief in this team, and our owners did too, that this team could compete with anyone. We've shown that through different parts of the year, this team prior to the deadline, all of our analytics were trending in the right direction. We were on par in a number of things we study heavily, looking at past champions and conference finalists and NBA finalists over the last 10 years.
We were trending in the right direction in a huge way, and Khris was trending in a huge direction in the right way. Khris put in a tremendous amount of work to get healthy and to play well, and he was playing really well. He was really starting to hit his stride. I'm sure he will. I'm sure he'll continue to play well.
So for me, it wasn't a zero factor, it's part of it. It's part of the calculus, but very little for me, personally.
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Takeaway: It feels like the truth lies somewhere in the middle on this one.
There is a reason why Rivers brought up Middleton's health early in his answer. And it is logical that Horst would downplay the injury when asked if it was one of the primary reasons the team decided to move one of the franchise's most storied players. Ultimately, though, it seems unlikely the Bucks would have decided to move Middleton at the trade deadline this season if he had appeared in 40 games and averaged 30 minutes per game.
But that wasn't the case.
The three-time All-Star only played in 23 games before the trade deadline and averaged 23.2 minutes per game, well below the 31.3 he averaged during his career in Milwaukee. Both Middleton and the Bucks expressed belief in his ability to get back to playing 30 minutes per game and being a major contributor in the postseason, but he had not done that before the trade deadline, so the Bucks made the deal and found a new player.
Question: Under your leadership, this organization has typically not taken on players with off-the-court legal issues or locker room incidents. Why did you feel comfortable adding someone like Porter to this locker room?
Horst: So, with Kevin, obviously we take very serious all the charges, the original charges. He's put in a ton of time. We put in a ton of time and due diligence. He's checked everything off, court-ordered and there's no more legal pending issues.
I think, again, the due diligence, spent a ton of time researching this, working on it, and so I think from that perspective, you have a baseline level of confidence. And in any transaction that you execute, it's a human business, there's risk. There's also reward. I think we have taken bets in the past and brought people into a culture with great veterans, a great mentor and leader in Doc Rivers, Giannis, Dame, the culture that we have, the family culture, and we feel like we've helped people.
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I think we have an opportunity to help Kevin Porter continue on the path of what he's on, which is improving and growing. There's no question that if he does that, we think he can help us. So there's a chance for a win-win. But, it's not unlike any other transaction. There's risk. And it's not a five-year commitment and a massive, major thing. I mean, this is a bet, and for him, it's an opportunity to help us and grow and improve, and he's been doing it. And that's what all of our due diligence showed us. And if he does that, he could be a pretty good fit with us. I know he's excited to be here and we're excited to have him.
Takeaway: The Bucks believe Porter can help them win basketball games, and they trust their research and background checks.
During his post-trade deadline media availability, LA Clippers president of basketball operations Lawrence Frank told reporters that the Clippers knew the Bucks would be interested in Porter because 'it came down to Milwaukee or us' in free agency this past summer. Clearly, the Bucks have been interested in Porter for a while, and if they were going to sign Porter and give him another second chance in the NBA this past summer, they had likely put in a good bit of research on his past.
Porter has a player option for next season, so the Bucks' belief in him has to be real, considering that means they have foregone an extra bit of roster flexibility in trading for him. Horst told reporters he hopes Porter plays so well for the Bucks that he opts out of his minimum contract for next season because he has created such a vigorous market for his services. Horst also admitted that they believe the risk of filling a roster spot for next season 'was worth the bet to get a player who we have highly ranked.'
Question: What do you feel like Sims brings to the table? You've pretty much only had stretch bigs during the years Antetokounmpo has been an MVP-caliber player. Why do you think a rim runner such as Sims can work on this roster?
Horst: I'm excited about him because — you're right, to me, it's been a long time — I don't recall us having a fourth big with his profile. He's young, so bigs typically develop late. Is he going to develop into a 40 percent 3-point shooter? I don't know. I don't know. He could, that's not what his gift is.
I mean, he is great vertically up and down the floor. He can really run. He's got hands so he can catch and finish. He gives us a real lob threat in addition to Giannis. He loves the offensive rebound just naturally. He's very active around the glass, in transition, again, we want to play in transition. He's one of the guys that can trail transition, and he cleans up a lot of stuff that way.
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He's an incredible human being. He's been well coached from Shaka Smart and (New York Knicks coach Tom Thibodeau). He's been part of contributing to a really good team in New York in a role that feels a lot like what ours is. It may or may not be an every night role, but it's kind of based on matchups, it's based on need. If guys get injured or guys are out, he's a guy that can step in, and you feel confident with him playing.
Takeaway: Sims has excited some Bucks fans because of his athleticism and ability to do things differently from Lopez and Portis. While Rivers pushed back on the title of 'emergency big' in his post-trade deadline comment, Horst was not afraid to describe the 26-year-old big man as the Bucks' fourth big. In a three big-man rotation, that means Sims will not be playing a whole lot, barring injuries.
That's probably fair. In four seasons with the Knicks, Sims has played only 2,374 minutes and scored 424 points. If the Bucks big men miss time, Sims will be a fun player to watch because he is so drastically different, but it doesn't seem like the Bucks acquired him to reconfigure their strategy in the middle of this season.
Question: In the end, why do you believe acquiring Kuzma and the other players at the deadline makes you a better team?
Horst: Kyle, truly, is versatile, we look at him as a Swiss Army knife. Can offensively play at least four, if not five positions. Defensively, probably three. He just plays with a pace and a speed and athleticism that we think will really help us against the teams we have to beat in the playoffs and there's really good teams in our conference. We felt like we've given ourselves more depth in the right spaces and more opportunities.
Listen, Khris is an incredible player, an incredible shot-taker, shot-maker. But we have really good shooting on our team. And Kyle, we hope, will follow a similar trend that a lot of guys have when they come here: A lot of guys shoot better with us. They get better shots, and they're capable.
And there's a lot of analytics that show that Kyle is very capable of making shots when we can improve his shot quality — and he can improve his shot quality. It's the same thing with Kevin. Kevin was a really efficient, high-level offensive player for a couple of years. He's a little inefficient now in his time with the Clippers, so we'll hopefully put him in a position where he gets better quality shots as well.
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Takeaway: Horst made it clear he believes the Bucks are going to be a better team during the final 30 games of the regular season and this postseason.
It's an interesting series of hypotheses, but skepticism is warranted.
Even in a more limited physical state and playing a more limited role, Middleton was putting up efficient numbers this season. Through 23 games, Middleton had posted a career-best effective field goal percentage of 59.5 percent and was three made free throws away from a 50/40/90 season. His ability to create a shot for himself against tough defenses, as well as his ability to create multiple easy looks for Antetokounmpo every night, will be missed dearly.
Getting Middleton into a rhythm may have made it slightly more difficult for Antetokounmpo and Lillard to feel truly free to be aggressive every time down the floor, but not having Middleton as a third creator in big moments is going to only increase the difficulty for the Bucks' superstar duo in crunchtime.
Overall, it may be fair to assess the roster as deeper, one through 14, or more talented in a couple spots deeper on the depth chart, but the advantages of creating such depth are tough to realize in the postseason and potentially even in the regular season. Per data from Sportradar, Rivers has used a nine-man rotation in 83 percent of the Bucks games decided by fewer than 20 points this season. So while there are more options, it's tough to definitively say those options will end up being helpful.
For these moves to make the Bucks better this season, they will need Kuzma to play the best basketball of his career, finding a balance between his smaller role with the Lakers and his large role with the Wizards while playing with efficiency. On top of that, the Bucks will need Antetokounmpo and Lillard, the league's top-scoring duo, to thrive to an even greater extent while likely taking on even more offensive responsibility.
The Bucks may ultimately prove these hypotheses correct, but that outcome doesn't seem likely.
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(Photo of Kyle Kuzma: Andy Manis / Associated Press)