Latest news with #AshleyParker
ABC News
02-06-2025
- Business
- ABC News
Is it really the end for Elon Musk and Trump?
Sam Hawley: Since Donald Trump returned to the White House, Elon Musk has spent a lot of time inside the Oval Office, and it was from there, sporting a black eye, that the world's richest man was farewelled from his role in the Trump administration. Today, staff writer at The Atlantic, Ashley Parker, on Elon's exit, his black eye, and whether that's really the end of his role in politics. I'm Sam Hawley on Gadigal land in Sydney. This is ABC News Daily. Sam Hawley: Ashley, we're going to discuss Elon Musk's time in the Trump administration. Let's start back in July last year, because that's when the relationship, I guess, really started to blossom after the assassination attempt against Donald Trump. Ashley Parker: Yeah, it was that assassination attempt in Butler, Pennsylvania, that was really the turning point for Elon Musk when he kind of immediately afterwards decided he was going to be all in for Donald Trump. Donald Trump: Where is he? Come on up here, Elon. Elon Musk: I'm not just MAGA. I'm dark, gothic MAGA. Elon Musk: And we had one president who couldn't climb a flight of stairs and another who was fist-pumping after getting shot. Fight, fight, fight! Ashley Parker: He ended up being Donald Trump's single biggest donor, and when you have the richest man on the planet as your single biggest donor, that makes a real difference. Sam Hawley: Sure does. And he backed the right horse, of course, Musk. But he also helped Trump to win. And then after that, he was appointed as a special government employee, running the so-called Department of Government Efficiency, or DOGE. Elon Musk: This is the chainsaw for bureaucracy. Chainsaw! Sam Hawley: So, he was really there all the time with Donald Trump, wasn't he? He was in the Oval Office, he was even allowed to bring his son into a meeting in the Oval Office. Donald Trump: This is X, and he's a great guy. High IQ. He's a high IQ individual. Ashley Parker: Yeah, and it started actually even before Trump became officially president, during the transition, where Trump spent almost all of his time at his private club in Mar-a-Lago, Elon Musk was always down there, he stayed in a place on the property. It should be noted he has many children. He has one son named X, who's five years old, who he really seems to favour. He was down there with X, and X continued to be a frequent presence, almost always, but not always, on Elon's shoulders. Sam Hawley: Yes, yes, literally. Alright, well of course in the final days of Elon Musk's time in the White House he criticised Donald Trump's so called so-called Big Beautiful Bill, a spending bill, that's making its way through congress, he told CBS News, well he basically didn't like it. Ashley Parker: I mean, he basically said, I believe either a bill can be big, or it can be beautiful, but probably not both. That was his view. Elon Musk: I was, like, disappointed to see the massive spending bill, frankly, which increases the budget deficit, not just decrease it, and undermines the work that the Doge team is doing. I think a bill can be big, or it can be beautiful, but I don't know if it could be both, my personal opinion. Ashley Parker: And, look, it goes with Elon Musk's worldview, and particularly his view as the head of Doge, which is that he believes that government should be smaller. I mean, being for smaller government in general is a very kind of classic Republican position, but it's a position that is fine to hold philosophically, but often what we see on both sides of the aisle is that when push comes to shove, you know, when those cuts mean cutting programs or benefits for people who live in your state and rely on them, or people you need to vote for you who like them, it's really hard to do. And that's why one of the operative words in this big, beautiful bill is big. Sam Hawley: Yes. All right, well, let's come to how much Musk actually managed to save the administration in a moment. But, look, he's left the political sphere for now, after 128 days. Donald Trump: Americans owe him a great debt of gratitude. So I just want to thank Elon for his time, as special government employee. Sam Hawley: And, Ashley, there was this extraordinary Oval Office press conference with Musk and Donald Trump on his final day, where he was sporting a black eye. Reporter: I wanted to ask quickly, Mr Musk, is your eye OK? What happened to your eye? Sam Hawley: Just tell me what happened there. Ashley Parker: So, you know, there are a ton of rumours, and there continue to be a ton of rumours, many of which you can find on X, about why he was sporting that black eye. The list of suspects is quite if we believe what Elon Musk said, Elon said that he was horsing around with his young son, X, and he sort of told X, go ahead, punch me in the face. Elon Musk: Turns out even a five-year-old punching you in the face actually does. Donald Trump: That was X, I tell you. X can do it. Ashley Parker: So he claims he got it from X. Sam Hawley: Wow. OK. All right. But as you say, there's a few other ideas of what that might have been all about. All right, well, let's look at what Elon Musk actually did at Doge and in the White House, because you've been reporting on this a lot for The Atlantic. He really up-ended several federal agencies, didn't he? Ashley Parker: Yeah, he sure did. Perhaps what he is best known for was he came in and he basically, to use his own words, he put USAID through the woodchipper. And that is an agency that falls under the State Department that provides humanitarian aid and assistance around the globe. And he just went in and really gutted that agency. That's one thing he did. And he also came in with a mandate from the president to try to reduce the number of federal workers and bureaucrats throughout the government at every agency. And so another thing he did was something he had done at Twitter, where he basically sent an email, and it was the same title of the email he used when he was at Twitter, or I guess now X under him, but called Fork in the Road that basically encouraged any federal worker who was interested, essentially, to leave government and in many ways terrorised the federal workforce. And it led to a lot of people leaving. And the irony was Donald Trump and Elon Musk, they have this sense that federal bureaucrats are sort of lazy, do-nothing workers, just punching a pay clock. But a lot of the federal workers who actually left under what Doge was doing were not these people. It was people who were highly talented and could make way more money in the private sector, but for whatever reason had chosen public service. He certainly reduced the workforce, but it was not necessarily the exact, precise types of people he necessarily wanted to lose. Sam Hawley: And the thing is, your reporting shows that it was really quite toxic behind the scenes. We don't want to use the F word, of course, on this podcast, but you write about this extraordinary scene in the White House between Musk and the Treasury Secretary, Scott Bessent. Just tell me about that. What happened? Ashley Parker: So, we reported this scene in a piece we did for The Atlantic on Elon Musk, in part because we thought it was illustrative of what happened when Elon Musk came to Washington, all cyber trucks and chainsaws, and ran up against the behemoth that is government. And so, in this particular instance, he and Scott Bessent, the Treasury Secretary, were essentially fighting over who got to appoint the next IRS commissioner, which is someone who reports to the Treasury Secretary. And Elon had kind of gone in and put in his own guy. The view from Bessent and Treasury was, why does Elon Musk, this guy who knows nothing about the Treasury Department, who isn't really working here, why does he get to choose the new IRS commissioner? Eventually, one day in the White House, just outside of the Oval Office, where Trump can most certainly hear Scott Bessent start shouting at Elon Musk, an expletive, we'll leave it there, repeatedly. And Musk is kind of egging him on and calling him a failed hedge fund owner and saying, I can't hear you, I can't hear you, say it louder. But what we know 100% for certain is these two men were very close to each other, up in each other's faces, shouting at each other as they kind of careened through the corridors of the West Wing. Sam Hawley: Yeah, and you found that really, Musk found himself isolated within the upper reaches of the administration. Ashley Parker: Yes, so Musk came in with a, sort of move fast, break things approach that has worked at his companies, that we associate with Silicon Valley and big tech, but that does not work, and in this case, did not work with the federal bureaucracy. And as someone put it to me in my reporting, if your ethos is that you're gonna go in and set these agencies on fire, and of course there's gonna be some ash and some cinder to clean up, then you at least need to sort of work to have strong relationships with these cabinet secretaries and agency heads and get them on your side and make them understand why it is you're doing what you're doing, and he didn't really have the patience for that. So a lot of the top people are more than happy to see him go. Sam Hawley: Yeah, and he came nowhere near the targets for cost cutting, did he? He initially said he'd cut $2 trillion in federal spending, but no, that did not happen. Ashley Parker: No, he originally promised 2 trillion, then at one point he defined it downwards to 1 trillion, which like, let's just pause there to be clear, that's a pretty big backtrack. Yes. And then he revised the goal down yet again, but he did not come close. You know, the New York Times did some very good reporting on this where Doge was sort of keeping track of all of their cuts, but it turned out some cuts, they were just being sloppy. They would say they cut X billion when in fact it was million. It was just a typo, right? They were wildly over counting. There were some cuts they did make that then got frozen by the courts or reversed by the courts. And then there was other stuff that they took credit for, but programs that had already been cut under the Biden administration or money that was not gonna be reappropriated this time around. But the end result is that they did not come anywhere close to their stated goal, originally of 2 trillion, then of 1 trillion and then of even less. Elon Musk: And I'm confident that over time we'll see a trillion dollars of savings. The calculations of the Doge team thus far are over 160 billion and that's climbing. Sam Hawley: All right, well, Ashley, Musk is now going back to business, back to basics, I suppose. He's got SpaceX, of course, he's got Tesla, he's got X. SpaceX, you know, they had a rocket launch recently that failed, Tesla's shares have slumped, of course, we all know that. Can he turn it around, do you think? Ashley Parker: So, I will say Elon Musk has had a lot more success at his private companies than he has in government. It's something not just that he knows how to do, but it's also a place where the way no one, not even the president in government gets to reign supreme like a king, Elon Musk can be the king or the monarch of Tesla or SpaceX or X. So yeah, I think when he re-engages, he will be able to have a much more direct impact on these companies. One interesting question is Tesla, which has just become sort of so politicised right now. There's some people who liked the idea of electrical vehicles, liked Tesla, and are getting rid of their Teslas or would never buy a Tesla, in part because of Elon Musk's outsized role in the Trump administration. And then there's other MAGA people who might have never considered a Tesla before who now find it very appealing for precisely the same reason. So I do think Tesla may be, those vehicles may be politicised, at least for the foreseeable future. Sam Hawley: Yeah. All right. Well, he also, of course, wants to send unmanned starships to Mars by the end of next year. It's very ambitious, of course. Do you think that's it for him in terms of politics? Is it over? Ashley Parker: I don't think so. You know, he disagrees with some things the Trump administration is doing, but he likes Trump. Trump likes him on the whole. And I also just having covered Trump for as long as I have, which is going back to 2015, I think of sort of Trump world as like the Hotel California you can check out, but you never quite leave. So I would not be surprised if we see Elon Musk have a second or a third act, or at the very least become one of these unofficial outside advisors who frequently calls the president and plants ideas in his ear that we all then end up chasing as reporters and as the public. Sam Hawley: Ashley Parker is a staff writer at The Atlantic. This episode was produced by Sydney Pead. Audio production by Adair Sheppard. Our supervising producer is David Coady. I'm Sam Hawley. Thanks for listening.
Yahoo
14-05-2025
- Health
- Yahoo
‘Tension' among GOP over impact of Medicaid cuts on midterm elections
Republicans are pushing for $700 billion in health-related spending cuts as Congress debates cuts to Medicaid. Washington Post Congressional Economics Correspondent Jacob Bogage and Staff Writer at the Atlantic Ashley Parker join Katy Tur to share their political analysis as lawmakers push ahead to the midterms.
Newsweek
28-04-2025
- Politics
- Newsweek
How to Get an Interview With Donald Trump: Just Call Him
Based on facts, either observed and verified firsthand by the reporter, or reported and verified from knowledgeable sources. Newsweek AI is in beta. Translations may contain inaccuracies—please refer to the original content. White House officials frequently say Donald Trump is the "most accessible" president ever – and judging by how easy he can be to get on the phone, they're not wrong. In a new interview with Trump to coincide with his 100th day in office, journalists from The Atlantic magazine revealed how the unscheduled conversation came together: with a simple phone call out of the blue. Trump answered his personal cell phone on a Saturday morning late last month while at his country club in Bedminster, New Jersey the same way most people do when they pick up an unknown number. "Who's calling?" the president of the United States asked, according to the magazine. On the other end of the line were the two Atlantic reporters with whom Trump had previously agreed to an interview, Ashley Parker and Michael Scherer. But just days before the planned White House sitdown, Trump unloaded on the pair on Truth Social. President Trump welcomes the 2025 Super Bowl champion Philadelphia Eagles at the White House on Aprill 28. President Trump welcomes the 2025 Super Bowl champion Philadelphia Eagles at the White House on Aprill 28."Ashley Parker is not capable of doing a fair and unbiased interview," Trump wrote. "She is a Radical Left Lunatic, and has been as terrible as is possible for as long as I have known her." Trump also fiercely criticized Scherer, claiming the writer had never penned a "fair" story about him, while deriding The Atlantic as a "third rate magazine" that would soon fold. But the leader of the free world picked up himself when the pair called on a lark days later, delivering on an impromptu interview the White House had previously cancelled. That appeared to be water under the bridge by the time Parker and Scherer got Trump on the line, with the journalists reporting he was "eager to talk about his accomplishments" while acknowledging in a rare bit of self-reflection how his second administration felt different. "The first time, I had two things to do — run the country and survive; I had all these crooked guys," Trump told the magazine. "And the second time, I run the country and the world." The story of how The Atlantic interview came to pass reflects how unusually reachable Trump has always been to reporters — an accessibility that he has carried with him to the Oval Office a second time, and one that comes with considerable security risks, according to experts who spoke to Newsweek. 'It's Sloppy' The Atlantic did not specify how it obtained Trump's cell number, but noted how White House staff have "imperfect control" of his personal communication devices. Some cybersecurity experts told Newsweek they were troubled by the report, especially considering how many people and entities could likely access the president's personal number. "If he's just using a standard Google or Android device, you have to assume there must be multiple governments listening to his every call, not the U.S. government," said Lee McKnight, an associate professor at Syracuse University's School of Information Studies. Even if the phone is secure, like most devices used by military and other government officials, McKnight said he's still concerned about how widely Trump's cell number has been disseminated. "That doesn't get away from the issue — who has access to the number?" McKnight asked. "Who can reach him directly? How many people can? That's been his freewheeling style — he's always been known to like to be, you know, reachable and bypass the normal filters of protecting somebody in the office of the president from all kinds of folks." If Parker and Scherer managed to track down Trump's cell number, other reporters in Washington and New York would likely have the digits as well, creating potential vulnerabilities, McKnight said. Donald Trump talks on the phone in the McLaren garage prior to the F1 Grand Prix of Miami at Miami International Autodrome on May 05, 2024, in Miami, Florida. Donald Trump talks on the phone in the McLaren garage prior to the F1 Grand Prix of Miami at Miami International Autodrome on May 05, 2024, in Miami, Florida. AFP/Getty Images "In general for cybersecurity, the weakest link is the problem," McKnight said. "So even if the chain around him is secure, now there's all kind of potential bad scenarios happening." If someone can reach the president directly, AI-powered deepfakes of world leaders could potentially be used against Trump, McKnight said. "It's sloppy," he said. "From a cybersecurity point of view, the Trump administration has been incredibly sloppy." McKnight noted how Jeffrey Goldberg, The Atlantic's editor in chief, had previously been mistakenly added to a Signal group chat with White House national security officials that discussed sensitive military plans. North Korea, China, Russia, Iran and "other bad actors" are most likely taking heed, he said. "That's my major concern," McKnight said. McKnight believes amateur sleuths or hackers already know Trump's cell number, which could lead to unsolicited spoofing calls or other threats – much like the fake phone call the son of Altanta Falcons defensive coordinator Jeff Ulbrich made on Friday to NFL prospect Shedeur Sanders. "So, you could have an audio deepfake of Putin, with little snippets of Putin's voice and interacting with it for whatever purpose," McKnight said. "You could walk through that scenario. It could be other world leaders, but deepfakes. If it's just Trump directly, he doesn't have time, he's a busy guy. Cybersecurity's not his thing, he shouldn't be the one filtering who's real and who's not on his own personal device. That's just not prudent." Matthew Hicks, an associate professor of computer science at Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University, said he didn't see Trump's personal cell phone as a potential security threat so long as he limits whom he contacts to reporters, friends and associates "Now, if he is giving orders via a personal cellphone, that could open the door to an attacker who can use a SIM swap attack to steal the president's personal cellphone number then deepfakes to issue executive orders, acting as him," Hicks said. Hicks also questioned how extensively Trump used the device. "I can assure you that any adversary that we care about already has this phone number," Hicks told Newsweek. "I think the important question is what the device is used for; if it is just to chat with reporters and friends, then I don't see the threat." Messages seeking additional details from the White House about Trump's usage of his personal cell phone were not returned Monday. Attempts to reach Trump directly on Monday were unsuccessful. "This is not president trump," Trump's son, Donald Trump Jr., told Newsweek in a text message, declining further comment.
Washington Post
28-04-2025
- Politics
- Washington Post
Inside The Atlantic magazine's circuitous route to interviews with Trump
Writers Ashley Parker and Michael Scherer of The Atlantic say they've learned one thing during their years of covering President Donald Trump : His first word is rarely his last one. That's obvious from their circuitous journey in landing interviews with the Republican president, which included an apparent late-night 'butt dial' and Trump's unexpected invitation to include in the session their editor, Jeffrey Goldberg, whom Trump had bashed as a 'sleazeball' weeks earlier.
Yahoo
28-04-2025
- Politics
- Yahoo
Read The Atlantic 's Interview With Donald Trump
Editor's Note: Read The Atlantic's related cover story, ''I Run the Country and the World.'' On Thursday, April 24, I joined my colleagues Ashley Parker and Michael Scherer in the White House to interview President Donald Trump. The story behind this meeting is a strange one, told in their new Atlantic cover story, which you can read here. Ashley and Michael had been seeking an Oval Office meeting for some time. It had been scheduled, then angrily unscheduled, then followed by an impromptu interview from the president's cellphone, and then by an apparent pocket dial from the president one night at 1:28 a.m., and then by a promise, again, for a sit-down, this time with a specific request from Trump that I accompany Ashley and Michael. This invitation was followed by a Truth Social posting from the president that read, in part, 'Later today I will be meeting with, of all people, Jeffrey Goldberg, the Editor of The Atlantic, and the person responsible for many fictional stories about me.' Not entirely fictional in the president's eyes, apparently, was the Signalgate controversy, which he said I was 'somewhat more 'successful' with.' We found the president—in an Oval Office redecorated in what I would call the Louis XIV Overripe Casino style—in an upbeat and friendly mood. Our numberless transgressions were, if not forgiven, then mainly ignored. Joining the president were his chief of staff, Susie Wiles; his communications director, Steven Cheung; the press secretary, Karoline Leavitt; and numerous other staff members. What follows are substantial excerpts from our conversation, condensed and edited for clarity. Our main goal in the interview was to encourage the president to analyze his unprecedented political comeback, and explain the way he is now wielding power—including the question of whether he sees any limits to what a president can do. Trump's main goal, it seemed, was to convince us that he has placed his presidency in service of the nation and of humanity. (A subsidiary goal was to ask us if we thought he should hang a chandelier in the Oval Office. The Atlantic takes no position on that matter.) He said many noteworthy things about Ukraine, about tariffs, and about the retribution-driven nature of his second term. I found our encounter fascinating and illuminating. Donald Trump: This will be very, very interesting. You think Biden would do this? I don't think so. How are you, folks? Ashley Parker: Good, how are you? Thanks for having us in. Trump: I'm good. Thank you very much. Jeffrey Goldberg: Nice to see you. And thanks for announcing the interview on Truth Social. Parker: Thank you for your discretion! Trump: I wanted to put a little extra pressure on you. But at the same time, you'll sell about five times more magazines. Goldberg: Believe me, I understand the marketing here. Trump: I did it for you. [He makes a sweeping gesture.] If you take a look back, Jeffrey, this is the new Oval Office—and people love it. Those paintings were all in the vaults. We have vaults downstairs. They have about 4,000 pictures, and I took some of the great presidents. Goldberg: It really does look different. Trump: Well, now it looks like it's supposed to look. Before, they didn't take care of it. There was no tender loving care. Parker: Are you using your own money for the Oval Office? Trump: Yeah, I do it on my own. You see up top? That came all out of Mar-a-Lago. Parker: Really? Trump: Yeah. Goldberg: Wait, the gilded—? Trump: Yeah, the gold. And that's all 24-karat gold, which is interesting because they've never come up with a paint that looks like gold. They've never come up with a paint where you can just paint it and it looks like gold. Michael Scherer: Is there truth to the rumor you're going to do the ceiling? Trump: Yeah, I'm doing that. The question is: Do I do a chandelier? Beautiful crystal chandelier, top of the line, beautiful. Would be nice in here. It almost calls for it, but I don't know. We're more focused on China, Russia. But you know, this is all new. The George Washington was in the vaults. Most of those pictures were in the vaults. And it's a great thing, you know. We just had the secretary-general of NATO, Mark Rutte. And we had the prime minister of Norway just preceding you. We have a lot of great relationships with people. People don't talk about it much, but they all want to meet. So we're trying to get the killing field ended, you know, in Russia. Goldberg: Yes, we want to talk about that. But I first wanted to thank you for having us in. I think it's better to talk than not talk. We are trying to do a cover story that I think is both fair and balanced. Trump: That's all I want. Fair. Fair and balanced. I've heard that before. Goldberg: The animating question of our cover story is how you did it. If you look at January 2021, February 2021, people would not have bet that you would come back. And just to be fair, I wanted to ask you what you think I don't understand about your presidency. Trump: I really believe that what I'm doing is good for the country, good for people, good for humanity. As you just heard, I was just with the prime minister of Norway and separately, outside, is the head of NATO. We also had the former head of NATO just a few minutes ago: Stoltenberg. Terrific guy; both terrific people. And they made a statement. They said, 'If you don't get this war ended, it will never end; it will go on forever, and people are going to be killed for a long time to come.' And, you know, they're losing—I was saying 2,500 people a week; it's close to 5,000 people a week, for the most part Russian and Ukrainian soldiers. And if we can stop that, that would be a great thing. Goldberg: But let me ask you, because the portrait of Ronald Reagan is sitting right above your shoulder. Trump: Yeah. Goldberg: For 100 years, American presidents have innately sympathized with the smaller nations and peoples that have been bullied or oppressed by Russia. You don't seem to have that same innate sympathy. It's not just Ronald Reagan. It's Jimmy Carter, JFK, and so on. Why don't you seem to have that same feeling for these bullied, oppressed nations that every other American president has had? Trump: I think I do. I think I'm saving that nation. I think that nation will be crushed very shortly. It's a big war machine. Let's face it. And if it weren't for me—I'm the one that gave them the Javelins that knocked out the tanks. You know, that tank moment was a big moment, when the tanks got stuck in the mud, and I gave them tremendous numbers of Javelins. That's the anti-tank busters. And they took out all those tanks when they got caught in the mud. You know, that was a big moment because, had those tanks gone in, they were 71 miles outside of Kyiv and they were going to take over Kyiv. That was the end of the war; it would've ended in one day. And that was one of the reasons it went on. Now, I could also make the case that it's too bad it went on, because a lot of people have died. A lot more people died in that war than is being reported. Not just soldiers. It's a lot of soldiers, but it's a lot of other people too. And, you know, I really can make the case that I've been very good because I'm saving that country. The prime minister of Norway—very respected guy—says that if President Trump didn't get involved, this war would never end. I think I'm doing a great service to Ukraine. I believe that. Goldberg: The Ukrainians don't believe that, though. Trump: Well, they don't because they have pretty good publicity. Look, the war in Ukraine would've never happened if I were president. It would've never happened, and it didn't happen for four years. Goldberg: I want to ask you about something that you just wrote in your Truth Social post. By the way, I love the line 'I will be meeting with, of all people, Jeffrey Goldberg.' Trump: Oh, you like that? I had to do that. Goldberg: It's a nice flair. Trump: I had to explain to people. That's my way of explaining to people that you're up here, because most people would say, 'Why are you doing that?' I'm doing that because there is a certain respect. Goldberg: You wrote, after talking about 'many fictional stories,' that I was 'somewhat more 'successful'' with Signalgate. I just didn't understand what that means. Trump: Well, I only meant that it got— Goldberg: Are you saying that Signalgate was real? Trump: Yeah, it was real. And I was gonna put in something else, but I didn't have enough time. Goldberg: How long does it take you to write these? Trump: Not long. Goldberg: I didn't think so. Trump: I go quickly as hell. You'd be amazed. You'd be impressed. And I like doing them myself. Sometimes I dictate them out, but I like doing them myself. What I'm saying is that it became a big story. You were successful, and it became a big story. Goldberg: But you're not saying that it was successful in the sense that it exposed an operations-security problem that you have to fix. Trump: No. What I'm saying is, it was successful in that you got it out very much to the public. Goldberg: Oh. Trump: You were able to get something out. It became a very big story. Goldberg: But is there any policy lesson from that, that you've derived and have talked to [Secretary of Defense] Pete Hegseth about, and [National Security Adviser] Mike Waltz? Trump: I think we learned: Maybe don't use Signal, okay? If you want to know the truth. I would frankly tell these people not to use Signal, although it's been used by a lot of people. But, whatever it is, whoever has it, whoever owns it, I wouldn't want to use it. Parker: You don't use Signal yourself? Trump: I don't use it, no. Parker: You're a big supporter of Pete Hegseth's, but he's fired three top advisers in recent weeks, he rotated out his chief of staff, he installed a makeup studio at the Pentagon, he put attack plans in two different Signal chats, including one with his wife and personal attorney. Have you had a talk with him about getting things together? Trump: Yeah, I have. Parker: What did you say? Trump: Pete's gone through a hard time. I think he's gonna get it together. I think he's a smart guy. He is a talented guy. He's got a lot of energy. He's been beat up by this, very much so. But I had a talk with him, a positive talk, but I had a talk with him. Parker: How does he explain it? Trump: Look, you had a secretary of defense that was missing in action for a week and nobody had any idea where he was. Think of that. And whether we like it or not, Afghanistan was perhaps the most embarrassing moment in the history of our country. I thought it was terrible. I was getting out. I would've kept Bagram Air Base. I was going to keep Bagram because it's right next to where China makes their nuclear weapons. But you had a secretary of defense that did that, that led to that whole disaster, and, you know, I think that's far, far worse. Parker: But for now, you think Hegseth stays? Trump: Yeah, he's safe. Parker: Does he stay longer than Mike Waltz? Trump: Waltz is fine. I mean, he's here. He just left this office. He's fine. He was beat up also. Scherer: A few weeks ago, several people on the National Security Council were dismissed. People like Laura Loomer and others have come to you with concerns about some people currently in your government. Should the American people expect that there will be more changes coming in terms of who's working in your government? Trump: I hope not, but you know, sometimes you learn about people later on. And people will give you recommendations. You would take recommendations about a writer, and then you find out six months later they did something that you weren't happy with, and you probably let them go or admonish them, or let them go. And I hire, indirectly or directly, 10,000 people. That's a lot. You know, this office is where it all begins. It's sort of an amazing office. Funny, I have the biggest people in the world coming into this office. They have great offices, they have great power, they have great companies or countries, and they all want to stop and they want to look: It's the Oval Office. You know, it's an amazing thing. But through this office, I hire about 10,000 people. They say directly/indirectly, you know, from secretary of state and others, and appointments of Supreme Court justices—three—to much lower-level people. And during the course of all of those hirings, you know, you're going to find out that you made a mistake. Parker: Our story is tracking the arc of a remarkable comeback. And not just the comeback. It feels like you are wielding power quite differently now. But my question has to do with January 2021—you're in exile; you're fighting for your political life. Trump: I don't think of it that way, but you're right, I guess. There could be some truth to that. Parker: When was the first moment when you realized you could return, when you realized that it could happen again? Trump: So, I'm a very positive thinker. I was questioning whether or not I would want to come back, but I never thought that I wouldn't be able to. You had Ron DeSantis, who was a hot prospect. People were saying, 'Oh, he's gonna do great.' And you had, on the Democrat side—I guess—you had some that were hot. Who knows? I didn't think they were hot. Biden, in my opinion, was a failed president. He let millions and millions of people into the country who shouldn't be here. It's a tremendous problem. I thought that maybe I wouldn't do it, but I thought if I did do it, I'd win. But I never considered it a comeback. A lot of people call it a comeback. Most people, I guess, call it the greatest political comeback in history. I think that's an honor, but I don't view it as a comeback. I just sort of view it as: I just keep trudging along. I shouldn't be embarrassed by that word, because it's probably accurate. I just didn't view it as a comeback. Scherer: When I came to the Oval Office last week as part of the press pool, I asked you a question about the IRS going after Harvard, and you talked pretty passionately about conservatives being targeted by the IRS. You also put out the executive order—Chris Krebs, you accused him of violating the First Amendment, but you're punishing him for his view on the 2020 election. Trump: Right. Scherer: There is a lot of concern in the country that your use of executive power to go after people you disagree with represents a slide toward authoritarianism. You put on Truth Social, maybe it was a joke: 'He who saves his Country does not violate any Law.' Should people be concerned that the nature of the presidency is changing under you? Trump: No. Look, in history, there's nobody that's been gone after like me. It may be harder for you guys to see because you're on the other side of the ledger. But nobody's been gone after like me. I didn't realize it for a little while. I was told—when I fired [former FBI Director James] Comey, I was told that was a terrible, terrible mistake to fire him, that it'll come back to haunt you. When I fired him, it was like a rock was thrown into a hornet's nest. The whole thing went crazy in the FBI. And that's where we found the insurance-policy statement. You remember the famous statement, 'Don't worry, he's gonna lose. But if he doesn't, we have an insurance policy'? The insurance policy was what they were doing. There's never been anybody that's been gone after like I have. I say that in the first presidency, we accomplished a lot; you know, I've been given very good marks by, well, let's say by people in the middle and on the right. On the right, definitely. But I've been given very good marks. And, you know, when you look at the economy, we then got hit with COVID, and when we handed back the stock market after COVID, it was higher than it was prior to COVID coming in, which is frankly pretty amazing. But the real thing was: While I was here, I was being spied on; they spied on the initial campaign. And now that's been proven—you know, many of these things were proven, the whole Mueller witch hunt; I mean, the bottom line on that was I had nothing to do with Russia. Scherer: Let's just— Trump: Just to finish. This is a much more powerful presidency than I had the first time, but I accomplished a tremendous amount the first time. But the first time, I was fighting for survival and I was fighting to run the country. This time I'm fighting to help the world and to help the country. You know, it's a much different presidency. Goldberg: Let's stipulate just for the purpose of the conversation that you are right about all of the things that you say happened to you. But you're back on top now. Wouldn't it be better to spend your time focused on China and all the other major issues, rather than vendettas against people who you think persecuted you four or eight years ago? Trump: So, you have two types of people. You have some people that said, 'You just had one of the greatest elections in the history of our country. Go do a great job, serve your time, and just make America great again.' Right? Then you have a group of people that say, 'Do that. Go on and do a great job. But you can't let people get away with what they got away with.' I am in the first group, believe it or not. Goldberg: I'm not sure I believe it. Trump: Yeah. But a lot of people that are in the administration aren't. They feel that I was really badly treated. And there are things that you would say that I had to do with that I actually didn't. Going after—and I don't know if you say 'going after'—but people that went after me, people in this administration who like or love Donald Trump and love MAGA and love all of it. I think it's the most important political movement in the history of our country, MAGA. Goldberg: Bigger than the founding of the Republican Party in the 1850s? Trump: No, no, no, but it's a big movement. There's been few movements like it. So, it's just been an amazing movement, and I think I have great loyalty. I have people that don't like the way I was treated. Goldberg: The thing that I can't get my mind around is that you're one of the most successful people in history, right? You've won the presidency twice— Trump: Three times. Goldberg: This is exactly the question! At this point in your career, don't you think you can let go of this idea that you won? I mean, I don't believe you that you won the 2020 election. Trump: I'm not asking you to. Goldberg: Most people don't believe you won the 2020 election. A lot of people don't believe you won. It goes to this point about vengeance versus moving forward. Trump: Look, it would be easy for me not to just respond, when you say that, and I could just let you go on. But I'm a very honest person. I believe—I don't believe; I know the election was rigged. Biden didn't get 80 million votes. And he didn't beat Barack Hussein Obama with the Black vote in the swing states—only in the swing states; it's interesting. We have lots of other things. I mean, we have so much information, from the 51 agents—that was so crooked—to the laptop from hell, to all of these different things. So it would be easier as you say that to just let you go on. But I'm a very honest person, and I believe it with all my heart, and I believe it with fact—you know, more important than heart. I believe it with fact. And it was a bad four years for this country. This country has been beaten up. We had a president that truly didn't have it. I left some very smart people from other countries today, and I have them all the time. And I think maybe one of the things I've been most successful with is foreign relations. Goldberg: I think the Canadians would disagree. Trump: Well, the Canadians. Here's the problem I have with Canada: We're subsidizing them to the tune of $200 billion a year. And we don't need their gasoline; we don't need their oil; we don't need their lumber. We don't need their energy of any type. We don't need anything they have. I say it would make a great 51st state. I love other nations. I love Canada. I have great friends. Wayne Gretzky's a friend of mine. I mean, I have great friends. I said to Wayne, 'I'm gonna give you a pass, Wayne.' I don't want to ruin his reputation in Canada. I said, 'Just pretend you don't know me.' But they're great people. You know, they do 95 percent of their business with us. Remember, if they're a state, there's no tariffs. They have lower taxes. We have to guard them militarily. Goldberg: You seriously want them to become a state? Trump: I think it would be great. Goldberg: A hell of a big Democratic state. Trump: A lot of people say that, but I'm okay with it if it has to be, because I think, you know, actually, until I came along— Goldberg: I'm no political genius, but I know which way they're going to vote. They have socialized medicine. Trump: You know, until I came along, remember that the conservative was leading by 25 points. Parker: It's true. Trump: Then I was disliked by enough of the Canadians that I've thrown the election into a close call, right? I don't even know if it's a close call. But the conservative, they didn't like Governor Trudeau too much, and I would call him Governor Trudeau, but he wasn't fond of that. Parker: The Trump Organization is selling 'Trump 2028' hats. Have you sought out a legal opinion about running a third time? Trump: No. Parker: I look at you and your presidency this time, and you've shattered so many norms, democratic norms— Trump: That would be a big shattering, wouldn't it? Parker: That's kind of my question. Goldberg: That's the biggest shattering of all. Trump: Well, maybe I'm just trying to shatter—look. Parker: Is that a norm too far? Trump: Oh, people are screaming all the time, no matter where I go, '2028!' They're happy. People are very happy with this presidency. I've had great polls, other than Fox. Fox never gives me great polls, but even at Fox, I have great polls, but Fox never gives me good polls. Fox is in many ways a disgrace for that. But, you know, I wrote something today, I said, 'Rupert Murdoch for years has been telling me he's gonna get rid of his pollsters,' but they never have—they've never treated me properly, the Fox people. But I've had great polls, including at Fox. Parker: 'Trump 2028,' that's not a norm you're willing to shatter? Trump: Well, I just will tell you this. I don't want to really talk about it, but it's not something that I'm looking to do. It's not something that I'm looking to do. And I think it would be a very hard thing to do. But I do have it shouted at me: 'No, no, you've gotta run.' Scherer: You've talked about moving American criminals to foreign prisons. You've criticized the courts for requiring due-process steps for deporting undocumented immigrants here in the country. Are there, in your mind, clear limits of how far you will go? Trump: Yeah. Scherer: Is there any reason that an American citizen would have to be concerned about their due-process rights being honored by your government? Or, and I mean, the Declaration of Independence reads: We don't want to be subject to foreign jurisdiction— Trump: Oh, could you open that? Pull that. [He directs Karoline Leavitt, the White House press secretary, to pull the blue curtains shielding a recently installed copy of the Declaration of Independence.] Trump: How's Karoline? How's Karoline doing? Good? Doing a good job? Goldberg: Karoline? She's very tough on me. Trump: Oh, is she? Uh-oh. Goldberg: Oh, yeah. Trump: I didn't know that. Goldberg: I probably just got her a raise by saying that. Trump: Wow. Karoline Leavitt: I did a whole briefing on Jeffrey Goldberg. Trump: Oh, really? Ooooh, she could be tough. She could be tough. Anyway, this is pretty cool. That was in the vaults for many years, downstairs. Scherer: So the original question was: What are the limits? Should American citizens be concerned about being sent to foreign prisons? Trump: I did say that. Scherer: Yes, and the issue the courts have raised is that people who are accused of being here illegally are being deported without due process. That raises the possibility that someone would be nabbed accidentally or improperly and deported, if you don't have due process. Trump: Well, they're here illegally to start off with. Scherer: But what if there's a mistake? You might get the wrong person, right? Trump: Let me tell you that nothing will ever be perfect in this world. But if you think about it: Clinton, Bush, and every president before me—nobody's ever been challenged when they had so-called illegal immigrants in the country; they took them out of the country, and they took them out very easily and very successfully. With me, we're going through a lot with this MS-13 person from, right now, from—where is he from? Where does he come from? Steven Cheung: El Salvador. Trump: Well, he actually comes initially from El Salvador, I guess. Yeah, I guess he comes from El Salvador. I knew he was outside of this country, way outside of this country, and then it turns out that his record is bad. They made him, like, the nicest guy in the world, a wonderful family man. And then they saw the MS-13, by mistake, on his knuckles, and they saw lots of other things. Parker: But what about Americans who aren't here illegally who may have committed a crime? Do you feel like they are guaranteed due process? Trump: If a person is legally in the country? That's a big difference between being legally in the country and illegally. These people are illegally in the country, all of them. So we have 250,000 people that we want to bring out. They're rough, tough people. Rough, tough. Many arrests, some from hitting women over the head with a baseball bat when they weren't looking; some from driving a motorcycle, pulling her along the street, she hits a lamppost, is horribly hurt. If you look at the registers, some from pushing people in the subway just prior to the subway train coming, chugging along, and they get pushed into the train and either get very badly hurt or die, mostly die. And I said 'if,' 'if,' in terms of foreign prison, 'if it's legal,' and I always say 'if it's legal.' Jeffrey, I said—I did talk about this—I would love it, you have people that are back and forth between sentences 28 times, people that are put back and forth into jail, they immediately go out and they whack somebody or they hurt somebody, or they do something very bad, and they go back, and they'll have, like, 28 different sentences. If it was legal to do—and nobody's given me a definitive answer on that—but if it was legal to do, I would have no problem with moving them out of the country into a foreign jail, which would cost a lot less money. Scherer: In terms of a definitive answer, you still believe the judiciary is an equal branch of government and you will abide by whatever the Supreme Court says in the end? Trump: Oh, yeah. No, I always have. I always have, yeah. I always have. I've relied on that. I haven't always agreed with the decision, but I've never done anything but rely on it. No, you have to do that. And with that being said, we have some judges that are very, very tough. I believe you could have a 100 percent case—in other words, a case that's not losable—and you will lose violently. Some of these judges are really unfair. But I do say, Jeff—I do say 'if it's legal.' I always preface it by saying that, because I think it sets a different standard. Scherer: There's talk on Wall Street of what they call a 'Trump put,' meaning that there's a bottom to how far the market will fall, because if we're headed to a recession, you'll change your tariff policy. If we're headed to de-dollarization and bond interest rates are rising, you're going to change your tariff policy to adjust for that. Is that a fair characterization, that you're watching the markets and that you're going to try and protect the American economy? Trump: I don't think so. I don't see how I could possibly change, because I saw what was happening. I've been saying this for 35, 40 years: I've watched this country get ripped off by other nations, and I say 'friend and foe.' And believe me, the friends are in many cases worse than the foe. Look, we lost trillions of dollars last year on trade with this guy [Biden], trillions of dollars. And every year, we lose trillions. Trillions, right? Hundreds of billions, but basically trillions; we went over the ledge into the T word. And I can't imagine it's sustainable to have a country that can lose that much money for years into the future. And I felt somebody had to do something about it. And already, I have tariffs on cars, as you know, of 25 percent; tariffs on steel of 25 percent; tariffs on aluminum of 25 percent. I have a base tariff of 10 percent for everybody, for every country, and that'll be changed. And a little bit of a misnomer: I have a lot of negotiations going on, but I don't have to. I do that because I want to see how they're feeling. But I'm like somebody that has a very valuable store and everybody wants to shop in that store. And I have to protect that store. And I set the prices. And we're gonna be very rich. We're gonna make a lot of money. So I don't think the answer is that it will affect me. It always affects you a little bit, but I don't think—and certainly there's no theory, like you say, that if it hits a certain number—I don't know where it is today. How's the stock market? Goldberg: I don't track it hour to hour. Trump: Anybody know? Let's see. Just give me the good news if it's good. Leavitt: It's up. All green. Trump: How much is it up? Leavitt: Dow is up 419 points; NASDAQ's up— Trump: This is a transition period. It's a big transition. I'm resetting the table. I'm resetting a lot of years. Not from the beginning, you know. Our country was most successful from 1850 or so to, think of this, from 1870—really, from 1870 to 1913. And it was all tariffs. And then some great genius said, 'Let's go and tax the people instead of taxing other countries.' We were so successful that the president set up committees, blue-ribbon committees, on how to give away the money. We were making so much money. And then we went to an income-tax system after that. And by the way, they brought the tariffs back, and after the Depression started, you know, they liked to say, 'Oh, tariffs caused—' I might as well get that little plug in, because the one thing they say, 'Well, tariffs caused the Depression.' No, no, we went into the Depression. We were in there for a while and they said, 'Maybe we could go back to tariffs and save it.' But that ship had sailed. Parker: Another theme of our story: You mentioned being a positive thinker. Putting the 2020 election aside, what have you learned about your ability to will reality into existence, or to shape the world around yourself? Can you tell us how that works? Trump: Well, I think a vast majority of the Republican Party thinks I won in 2020. And I don't think it's necessarily what I've said. I think they have their own eyes and they have their own minds. They're very smart people, actually. Parker: The election aside, how are you able to do that? It seems like you sometimes are able to create reality, to make things true, simply by saying them. Trump: Well, I'd like to say that that is reality. You know, I'm not creating it. But maybe you could use another subject, because probably I do create some things, but I didn't create that; I think that is reality. I have an amazing group of people that love what I'm saying. We don't want crime. We don't want people getting mugged and killed and slapped and beat up. We don't want to be taken advantage of on trade and all these other things. We want to keep the taxes low. We want to have a nice life. And we weren't having a nice life these last four years. People were really, really unhappy. And you saw that in the election. It's hard to win all seven swing states. And I won them by a lot. You know, I won all seven. I just think that I say what's on my mind. Trump: I also say things that are common sense, but it's not that I say them because they're common sense. It's because that's what I believe. It turns out to be common sense. When I hear—I watched this morning a congressman, who I don't even know, fighting like hell to have men play in women's sports. And I think it's a 95 percent—you know, they say it's an 80–20 issue; I think it's probably a 95 percent issue. And I don't fight it too much. I don't even mention it now. I save it for before an election, because I don't want to talk them out of it. I see this Congresswoman Crockett [a Democrat from Texas], who's so bad, and they say she's the face of the party. If she's what they have to offer, they don't have a chance. I think that the Democrats have lost their confidence in the truest sense. I don't think they know what they're doing. I think they have no leader. You know, if you ask me now, I know a lot about the Democrat Party, right? I can't tell you who their leader is. I can't tell you that I see anybody on the horizon. I would tell you, if you said, 'Well, who do you think it would be?' Parker: Yeah, who? Trump: I don't see anybody on the horizon. Now, maybe there's somebody— Goldberg: Not Wes Moore, Shapiro, Beshear, any of these? Trump: So I spoke to Shapiro the other day. I liked him. I called him about his house, which was terrible. I said, 'We're behind you 100 percent.' And we had our people look and everything. It was a hell of a fire. You know, usually you hear that stuff and you see not much damage. That was—that place was burned out. I spoke to him. I like Shapiro. I think he's good. I don't know that he catches on. You never know what's going to catch on. Parker: Gretchen Whitmer? Trump: I think she's very good. She was here. You know, she took a lot of heat. She was here because she wanted to have me keep open an Air Force base, a very big one up in Michigan. A very noble cause. Scherer: When we first talked to you on the phone, I asked if you were having fun. You said you were having a lot of fun. That was a month and a half ago. Has something between then and now been much harder than you expected? Trump: It's much softer than it was the last time. If you look at the inauguration, the first time, I didn't have any of the people that you saw the second time, or the third time, I guess you would call it. Scherer: Do they call you to complain about their portfolios, their net worth, with the stock market going down? Trump: No, nobody—nobody called. Most people say, 'You're doing the right thing.' I mean, they're doing the right thing. It's not sustainable what was happening with our country. We were letting other countries just rip us to pieces. I think I'm doing the country a great service. It would be easier for me if I didn't do it. I could have a really easy presidency. Just come in here, leave everything alone, don't go through the tariff stuff. And I don't find it hard. I don't find it hard to sell. All you have to do is say, 'We lost trillions of dollars last year on trade.' And, you know, other countries made trillions. You know, China made one and a half trillion dollars on trade. They built—they're building the biggest military you've ever seen with that. And they're building it with our money. Goldberg: Just to go back to the Russia question. 'Vladimir, STOP!' You wrote that today on Truth Social. Trump: Yeah, I did. Goldberg: He doesn't strike me as the kind of guy who will say, 'Oh, well, Trump told me he wants to stop, so I'm going to stop.' Trump: You may be surprised. Goldberg: Well, if that's the case, I'll come back and say, 'You were right. I was wrong.' But I think I'm right. He's not the kind of guy who's going to just stop trying to take over all of Ukraine. The question is: If he advances, if he has more military success— Trump: Which is possible. Goldberg: Blowing up apartment buildings— Trump: Sure. Goldberg: Do you ever see a situation in which you're going to come in, not with troops, but with more weaponry, with full-blown support for Ukraine to keep its territorial integrity? Trump: Doesn't have to be weapons. There are many forms of weapons. Doesn't have to be weapons with bullets. It can be weapons with sanctions. It can be weapons with banking. It can be many other weapons. Goldberg: Is there anything that Putin could do that would cause you to say, 'You know what? I'm on Zelensky's side now.' Trump: Not necessarily on Zelensky's side, but on Ukraine's side, yes. Yeah. But not necessarily on Zelensky's side. I've had a hard time with Zelensky. You saw that over here when he was sitting right in that chair, when he just couldn't get it. Goldberg: That was one of the strangest things I've ever seen in the Oval Office. Trump: All he had to do is be quiet, you know? He won his point. He won his point. But instead of saying 'Okay' when I made the statement, I said, 'Well, we're working to get it solved. We're trying to help.' He said, 'No, no, we need security too.' I said, 'Security?' Goldberg: Well, isn't he supposed to advocate for his country? Trump: Yeah, he is, but somehow, let's get the war solved first. I actually said, 'I don't even know if we're gonna be able to end it.' You know, he was talking about security after. After. And then he made the statement, something to the effect that they fought it alone, they've had no help. I said, 'Well, we've helped you with $350 billion, and Europe has helped you with far less money,' which is another thing that bothers me. We'll have to see what happens over the next period of pretty much a week. We're down to final strokes. And again, this is Biden's war. I'm not gonna get saddled—I don't wanna be saddled with it. It's a terrible war. Should have never happened. It would've never happened, as sure as you're sitting there. Goldberg: So that scene with President Zelensky over here, you don't think that scared Taiwan or scared South Korea or Japan? Trump: No. No. Goldberg: They're not asking, 'That's the way he treats allies?' Trump: Well, look. Ready? We've been treated so badly by others. We went to South Korea and we took care of them because of the war. We took care of them and we never stopped. You know, we have 42,000 troops in South Korea. Costs us a fortune. I actually got them to pay $3 billion, and then Biden terminated it. I don't know why. They've become very rich. They took shipping; they took our cars. You know, they took a lot of our businesses, a lot of our technology. You don't have to feel sorry for these other countries. These other countries have done very well at our expense, very well. And I want to protect this country. I want to make sure that you have a great country in another hundred years. It's a very important time. Jeffrey, this is a very important time right now. This is one of the most important periods of time in the history of our country right now. Scherer: Did you mean to call me at 1:30 in the morning after the UFC fight? I got a call— Trump: After what? Scherer: After the UFC fight in Miami, I got a call from your cellphone number at 1:30 a.m. Trump: Really? Oh, no, that's another—that sounds like another Signal thing. Article originally published at The Atlantic
