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Daily Mirror
5 days ago
- Entertainment
- Daily Mirror
Gorgeous Underground station 'looks like a pub' and has quirky hidden feature
Kilburn Park station on the Bakerloo line is a delightful oddity, with a design that's heavily inspired by the quaint appearance of many London pubs - here is why London is a city brimming with artistic Tube stations and unique architectural structures, but one stop on the Bakerloo line stands out for its distinctive charm - Kilburn Park station. With its red-tiled facade reminiscent of traditional London pubs, this iconic station is a nod to the early 1900s design style. The architect behind this particular station is believed to be Stanley Heap, who drew heavily from the style of his more renowned predecessor, Leslie Green. Green's designs typically featured similar red-tiled frontages, glazed with a glossy surface known as faience, and arched lattice windows. However, Kilburn Park takes this design ethos a step further, being a much longer and sturdier building than most of Green's other designs, reports MyLondon. Unlike many of his other stations, such as Chalk Farm or Belsize Park, Kilburn Park lacks a first floor with arched windows. This unique feature is due to the station using escalators instead of lifts, eliminating the need for space for lift mechanisms. The property's standout feature is its immaculate lattice windows on the ground floor, which have remained unchanged over the years. Their distinctive pattern and size, almost touching the pavement, make the building truly exceptional. Cambridge Avenue presents a six-bay frontage that offers an impressive view of the triple-sectioned windows. Above, a decorative tiled frieze complements the faience backdrop, with banners above each bay declaring "EXIT", "Underground", "KILBURN", "PARK", "Underground" and "ENTRANCE." Stepping inside, visitors are greeted by the iconic green and cream chequered tiles indicative of Leslie Green's elegant 1920s design. The interior retains its period charm with wooden details surrounding the ticket counters and a quaint timber kiosk at the heart, complete with a moulded cornice, sash windows, dado panelling, and a panelled door evoking the classic Tardis. The dual escalator shaft, illuminated by an elliptical glass dome, leads to the lower escalator hall where arches with keystones open to platforms lined with exquisite tiling and a continuous frieze bearing the station's name. An elegant wooden observation area complete with a timeless OG clock stands watch over the perimeter. The station platforms display an exquisite array of tiles, leading the eye upwards to the stunning frieze that proudly displays the station's unique character. During the turmoil of the First World War, the Bakerloo line made a historic leap north from Edgware Road to Queens Park on 31 January 1915, connecting with the London and North Western Railway above the fray. By February of that same year, trains were already chugging into Queen's Park. The Underground Electric Railways Company of London (UERL) was behind the original creation of what was then known as the Baker Street and Waterloo Railway. It kicked off its service between Lambeth North (then Kennington Road) and Baker Street on 10 March 1906. With unstoppable momentum, the line extended eastward to Elephant and Castle, opening this section to eager passengers on 5 August. The catchy moniker "Bakerloo" swiftly took hold, prompting the authorities to formally rename the line in July 1906 after the beloved epithet.
Yahoo
30-01-2025
- Business
- Yahoo
Q4 2024 Maxlinear Inc Earnings Call
Leslie Green; IR Contact Officer; Maxlinear Inc Kishore Seendripu; Chairman of the Board, President, Chief Executive Officer; Maxlinear Inc Steven Litchfield; Chief Financial Officer, Chief Corporate Strategy Officer; Maxlinear Inc Tore Svanberg; Analyst; Stifel Ross Seymore; Analyst; Deutsche Bank Tim Savageaux; Analyst; Northland Securities Quinn Bolton; Analyst; Needham & Company Inc. Suji Desilva; Analyst; ROTH Capital Partners Sam Feldman; Analyst; BNP Paribas David Williams; Analyst; Benchmark Company Alec Valero; Analyst; Loop Capital Christopher Rolland; Analyst; Susquehanna International Group Operator Greetings, and welcome to the MaxLinear fourth quarter 2024 earnings conference call. (Operator Instructions) As a reminder, this conference is being recorded. It is now my pleasure to introduce your host, Leslie Green, Investor Relations. Thank you, Leslie, you may begin. Leslie Green Thank you, Alicia, and good afternoon, everyone, and thank you for joining us on today's conference call to discuss MaxLinear's fourth quarter 2024 financial results. Today's call is being hosted by Dr. Kishore Seendripu, CEO; and Steve Lichfield, Chief Financial Officer and Chief Corporate Strategy Officer. After our prepared comments, we will take your questions. Our comments today include forward-looking statements within the meaning of applicable securities laws, including statements relating to our guidance for the first quarter of 2025, including revenue, GAAP and non-GAAP gross margin, GAAP and non-GAAP operating expenses, GAAP and non-GAAP interest and other expense, and GAAP and non-GAAP diluted share count. In addition, we will make forward-looking statements relating to trends, opportunities, execution of our business plan, and potential growth and uncertainties, and various products and geographic markets, including without limitation statements concerning future financial and operating results, opportunities for revenue and market share across target markets, new products, including the timing of production and margins of such products, demand for the adoption of certain technologies and our total addressable market. These forward-looking statements involve risks and uncertainties, including risks outlined in our risk factors section of our recent SEC filings, including our Form 10-K for the year ended December 31, 2024, which we filed today. Any forward-looking statements are made as of today, and MaxLinear has no obligation to update or revise any forward-looking statements. The fourth quarter 2024 earnings release is available in the Investor Relations section of our website at In addition, we report certain historical financial metrics, including but not limited to, gross margin, operating margin, operating expenses, and interest and other expense of both GAAP and non-GAAP basis. We encourage investors to review the detailed reconciliation of our GAAP and non-GAAP presentations and the press release available on our website. We do not provide reconciliation of non-GAAP guidance for future periods because of the inherent uncertainty associated with our ability to project certain future changes, including stock-based compensation and its related tax effects as well as potential impairments. Non-GAAP financial measures discussed today are not meant to be considered in isolation or as a substitute for comparable GAAP financial measures. We are providing this information because management believes it is useful to investors as it rich reflect how management measures our business. Lastly, this call is being webcast, and the replay will be available on our website for two weeks. And now let me turn the call over to Dr. Kishore Seendripu, CEO of MaxLinear. Kishore? Kishore Seendripu Thank you, Leslie, and good afternoon, everyone. Our Q4 results exceeded the midpoint of a guidance at $92.2 million of revenue, non-GAAP gross margin of 59.1%, along with the significant reduction in operating expenses. We continue to see meaningful improvement in our customer order rates and backlog. The solid signs of recovery combined with new product traction and strategic growth areas such as high-speed interconnect. On slide 5, an Internet provide us confidence that you achieve continued growth and improvements in our financial results throughout this year. Looking at our key markets, in infrastructure, the expansion of cloud computing is driving significant growth in design activity that normalized speed optical data center connectivity. We made strong progress in '24. The design win traction and broader goals for our 5 nanometer Keystone PAM4 product. We exceeded our revenue targets in '24 and our position rigs earning growth in '25. As of this month, we have shipped approximately 1 million plus units total of Keystone products across multiple customers into high-volume opportunities. Our initial design wins and transceivers, active optical cables, and active electrical cables are ramping as expected. We anticipate initial qualification and rollout for our agents gigabit in 1.6 terabit data center applications throughout 2025 and into 2026. The superior power and performance advantages of Keystone continued to be the main street and focus for our differentiation even in our next generation Rushmore family of 200 gigabit per lane band for TIAs and DSPs were 1.6 terabit interconnections. In wireless infrastructure, our wireless 5G access O-RAN single chip radio unit and our backhaul transceivers and modems are essential for supporting increased mobile usage and data rates as well as new functions such as Edge AI. We believe we are positioned strongly for content growth and share gains this year as service provider CapEx spend improves and as our continued design wins the Tier 1 customers beginning to ramp particularly in the second half of 2025. Also, within our interest structure revenues, our Panther III series hardware storage accelerators are providing exciting incremental growth opportunities. And the 2024 Supercomputing Conference in November, we announced a new software defined storage solution in partnership with Quanta to address the needs of AI high-speed computing and other data intensive applications. This joint solution enables rapid access to massive data sets while enhancing both performance and scalability. As we look ahead, our path to product is strongly positioned within the data center, enterprise storage applications and at the edge of the network with multiple design means with major customers and value-added resellers across key geographies. In Ethernet connectivity, MaxLinear is one of the broadest and most competitive portfolios of 200 gigabit Ethernet switch and five products for the enterprise and small and medium business switch markets. Swan Creek, our single chip integrated 8-port 5-inch switch is gaining traction across multiple enterprise customers, looking to upgrade the networks to 200 gigabit ethernet rates. Our Tier 1 North American enterprise OEM customer is expected to ramp to production in 2025 and contribute to significant ethernet revenue growth over the coming years. In addition, we are seeing widespread interest from next generation broadband gateways and routers. Shifting to broadband and Wi-Fi connectivity are considerable focus and on PON to expand a broadband target addressable market in addition to a strong cable data offering of DOCSIS 3.1, Ultra DOCSIS and DOCSIS 4.2 solutions is bearing fruit. We have exciting design interaction for our single chip integrated fiber PON and 10 gigabit processor gateway SOC plus tri-band Wi-Fi 7 and single chip platform solution. We have a promising engagement at another Tier 1 North America carrier, which we believe can become a major opportunity for us in 2025 and '26. In conclusion, our strong product roadmap execution has begun to deliver meaningful traction and target at the same market expansion across several high value categories, including high-speed interconnect for data center, enterprise ethernet and storage accelerators, wireless infrastructure, multi-gibbon broadband access and Wi-Fi connectivity solutions. As we begin 2025, we're not only energized with the solid growth prospects in 2025, but we also feel confident achieving sustained revenue growth in the coming years. With that, let me now turn the call over to Steve Litchfield, our Chief Financial Officer and Chief Corporate Strategy Officer. Steven Litchfield Thank you, Kishore. Total revenue for the fourth quarter was $92.2 million, up 14% from $81.1 million in the previous quarter. Infrastructure revenue was $27 million. Broadband revenue for the fourth quarter was $29 million. Connectivity revenue was $20 million. And our industrial multi-market revenue was $16 million. GAAP and non-GAAP gross margins for the fourth quarter were approximately 55.6% and 59.1% of revenue. The delta between GAAP non-GAAP gross margin in the fourth quarter was primarily driven by $3 million of acquisition related intangible asset amortization. Fourth quarter GAAP operating expenses were $92.4 million and non-GAAP operating expenses were $61.3 million. The delta between GAAP and non-GAAP OpEx was primarily due to stock-based compensation and performance-based equity accruals of $20.4 million combined acquisition related costs of $7.3 million and restructuring costs of $3.1 million. GAAP and non-GAAP loss from operations for Q4 2024 was 45% and 7% of net revenue. GAAP and non-GAAP interest and other income during the quarter was $351,000 and $677,000, respectively. In Q4, cash flow used in operating activities was approximately $28 million. We exited Q4 of 2024 with approximately $120 million in cash, cash equivalents, and restricted cash. Our day sales outstanding was up in the fourth quarter to approximately 85 days. Our gross inventory was down versus previous quarter as we continue to make improvements with inventory turns slightly less than one. This concludes the discussion of our Q4 financial results. With that, let's turn to our guidance for Q1 of 2025. We currently expect revenue in the first quarter of 2025 to be between $85 million and $105 million. Looking at Q1 by end market, we expect broadband and infrastructure to be up. Connectivity is expected to be approximately flat, and industrial & multimarket is expected to be down. We expect first quarter GAAP gross margin to be approximately 54.5% to 57.5% and non-GAAP gross margin to be in the range of 57.5% and 60.5% of revenue. We expect Q1 2025 GAAP operating expenses to be in the range of $93 million to $99 million. We expect Q1 2025 non-GAAP operating expenses to be in the range of $56 million to $62 million. We expect our Q1 GAAP and non-GAAP interest and other expense needs to be in the range of approximately $1 million to $2 million. We expect $2.7 million tax expense on a GAAP basis and non-GAAP tax of zero. We expect our Q1 GAAP and non-GAAP diluted share count to be approximately $85.5 million each. In closing, another quarter of improvement in customer orders and continued new product traction give us confidence that we are entering our next stage of growth in 2025. We're excited that our innovation and investment and strategic applications such as optical, high-speed interconnects, wireless infrastructure, storage, Ethernet, Wi-Fi, and fiber broadband, access gateways are beginning to deliver tangible opportunities for near term and long-term growth. In addition, our strong focus on operational efficiency in 2024 is positioning us for positive leverage in our business model and a return and to profitability this year. With that, we'd like to open up the call for questions. Operator (Operator Instructions) Tore Svanberg, Stifel. Tore Svanberg Yes, thank you. So my first question is, obviously, you're still relatively new entrant into the optical interconnect market. But you are the first one to report among your peer group. So I was just hoping, both Kishore or Steve, could you just talk a little bit about the events of this week, especially from Monday? How do you view this whole topic as far as potentially impacting the optical interconnect market? Kishore Seendripu Well, Tore, we're pretty excited that we now have recorded a strong 2024. We exceeded our own internal targets of revenues. We have design wins and shipments in various qualities and stages with all the 12 module makers in the world with their end customer spending across both China in the US. So that's the exciting part with regard to what happened this week. And I'm afraid that that's a question that really only democratizes and really expand the real possibility for our new entrants like us to really expand our share as the market grows. At the end of the day, we are a high-speed interconnect transport company. So no matter what happens in the compute, the links are going to more and we will be faster and speedier. And we have the right technology for low-power and high efficiency performance targets that these markets will require. So from my point of view, processing content is one thing. But the links are given, and they're going to be really needed. And I think it really democratizes for people like us to really, really part of the majorly what I call expanded and singularized market if that's going to take hold. Tore Svanberg Got it. That's great perspective. And as my follow up, the DSOs have been all over the place this year. They came down very nicely in Q3, but now they came back up again in Q4. Obviously, still not as bad as Q1, right? But help us understand what's going on there and how should we think about DSOs here in '25? Kishore Seendripu Yes. I think they're probably understand a little bit in Q3, it was really product mix and just some of the sales that we had there. So they did come up a little bit, but I would argue that in this 80 to 85 range is probably where you'd likely see it at the rest of the year. Tore Svanberg Got it. But that explains why -- I think your cash flow came down, was it $30 million? Was that the minimum? Kishore Seendripu Yeah. Cash flow came down but that was already reflecting. We talked about that last quarter. A lot of that was -- I mean, there were some restructuring costs, but there is definitely in kind of movement around the balance sheet. But certainly, that was as expected in Q4. Tore Svanberg Got it. Thank you. Operator Ross Seymore, Deutsche Bank. Ross Seymore All right, guys. So I wanted to talk about the bookings in the backlog. I think the third quarter, you've seen those improve, so it's nice to see that corner being turn. Could you give us a little bit of color on where you see that happening either by end market or geography? And perhaps even is it company specific? Or is it just kind of the cycle is finally turning? Any sort of color like that on those metrics would be great. Steven Litchfield Sure, Ross. Yes. Thanks for the question. Yes, we're definitely continuing to see really nice improvement on the booking side, starting backlog. I mean, going into this quarter versus the previous two or three quarters is much higher, so we're feeling much more confident. Visibility has certainly improved. Customers are starting to understand lead times and recognize that they can't get product when they ask for tomorrow. So we're seeing some nice improvements as far as visibility in forecasting. I mean your question is that MaxLinear versus everyone? I mean, look, we've -- in the broadband market, it certainly been a lot worse over the last two years. So I would say that that is starting to normalize a bit. I also -- Kishore shortens a lot of his statements, talked about the new products. And I think as we look at 2025, I mean, certainly, we've got a recovery. I think that will be a nice tailwind. But I think what we're most excited about is these new products that are coming and these new programs that we've won. So there certainly market share gains that we're seeing and new products that are starting to ramp. Ross Seymore Thanks for that. And I guess, Steve, probably this one's for you as well. Just on the restructuring efforts, not the fourth quarter impact per se, but just wanted to make sure that there's no big change. And I think you guys talked about what $2200 million plus or minus for full year on the OpEx side. Just wanted to see if that's still the right trajectory. And if there's any sort of lumpiness to the path on that between 1Q and 4Q? Steven Litchfield Yes. I mean, so the restructuring certainly underway and the biggest portion of that was in Q3. And we had talked about kind of some residual that continues after that. But we're definitely seeing nice improvements in OpEx spending. I don't think the expectations have changed. I think it is -- I do expect it to be somewhere between 220 and 225 for the year. And I would expect as kind of some of these final effects take place that you'll kind of see it move down throughout the year modestly. It's not a huge change there, but it'll come down a little bit throughout the year. Ross Seymore Thank you. Operator Tim Savageaux, Northland Capital Markets. Tim Savageaux Hi, good afternoon. Question on the optical front, I guess. I think you've been talking throughout the year and you've increased this range to more than $30 million in revenue for the year. I wonder if you could tell us kind of where that ended up coming in. And given your volume comments, seems like you must have had a pretty good January, I guess. So can we infer kind of a big step up there? I know you've guided infrastructure higher, just looking at the million-unit volume versus whatever your revenue may have been in '24. And I'll follow up from there. Steven Litchfield Sure. Hey Tim, yeah, I mean, I think I'd probably echo what was said in the previous statements. I mean, I think we're really pleased. We came in higher than what we had expected. We didn't -- we're not breaking out the exact number, but we started the year between 10 and 30. And I think we probably landed shy of the 40 number that we were stretching to, but certainly well above the high end of the range that we set originally. So we're pleased with the progress. I think as we've talked about, I mean, a lot of our wins and future production revenues are really driven by 800 gig conversion. And those are just now happening this year. So it's an exciting time and looking forward to talking more about that in the coming quarters. Tim Savageaux Or perhaps on the next question. I wanted to see if you could -- if you would like to set a range for this year, similar to what you, not a similar range of numbers, of course, but conceptually similar, about what you think that optical business might be able to generate as you sit here in early '25. Steven Litchfield Yeah, sure, Tim. Look, I don't think much has changed on this front. I think, I mean, we've talked about kind of the $60 million to $70 million number. I think that's a very reasonable number that you can target right here. Hopefully, these new data centers roll out as expected. Some of that's out of our control, but certainly we're doing our part getting the wins and getting the qualifications completed. And so as soon as -- then we see our customer. I guess, in this case, our customers roll out these programs. Tim Savageaux Okay. Last one for me. Just a little while ago, we saw an agreement. Well, actually, Amazon has been making a couple of agreements and announcements of late. But one with JBL, who I think is a module partner of yours dating back to OFC where Amazon took a bunch of warrants and JBL doesn't exactly indicate a 800 gig transceiver module relationship. But it seems like it could, I wonder if you have any comment on the potential impact of that agreement on MaxLinear? Steven Litchfield Well, look, I'm not going to comment on those agreements. We'll confirm. As I think many of you have seen, we did demonstrate, and we've been working with those guys for some time. But we definitely -- I mean, we demonstrated this at OFC last year and they've been a good partner. Tim Savageaux Thanks very much. Steven Litchfield Yeah. Thanks, Tim. Operator Quinn Bolton, Needham & Company. Quinn Bolton Yes. So Steve, I just wanted to follow -- sorry, to ask a question. You sort of follow-up on Tore's question. Cash standard about $120 million, guidance probably has you at a small few million, maybe mid-single-digit million net income -- non-GAAP net income loss in the March quarter. Are there any major changes in working capital, or any residual restructuring cash charges to hit you in the March quarter? Any sense where you think cash might -- what cash might do through the quarter? Steven Litchfield Yeah, so good question, Quinn. I think as we've talked about cash, nothing's really changed on that front. We do expect inventory to continue to come down, so that's good. Working capital, I'm sure from -- as revenues start to recover here, and we burn down those inventories, we'll certainly have to replenish that. Out quarter revenues are certainly going to be above where they are today. So we'll have to start building on that, and we're doing our best to manage it. Of course, we've talked about cash flow break even somewhere kind of mid-year. And it's probably Q2, Q3. Likely Q3 is where I'd probably put it today. But we feel very comfortable with that, yeah. Quinn Bolton Okay. Thanks, Steve. And then I guess for Kishore, two questions. You talked about some design wins, a Tier 1 design win I think in the wireless infrastructure market, beginning to ramp in the second half of '25. Wasn't sure if that was for the Sierra product or if that was for the backhaul product. If you could provide any more detail there, that would be great. And then sort of similarly, I think you mentioned now a promising engagement with an additional North American Tier 1 on the PON side. I think, in the past, you've already talked about working with two of the largest in North America. So wondering if that is a third Tier 1 in North America, or maybe I misheard something. Thank you. Kishore Seendripu Well, first to answer your question of the ramp on the wireless infrastructure, the second half, there are two parts to it. There are -- they're both in our wireless backhaul transport business and also on the access side. And so it's for both the product lines, the one for Sierra O-RAN product and as well as our backhaul products. And primarily, this growth is coming through content expansion of these customers on the backhaul side. And obviously, our Sierra product is unique and is a leader. And it's the beginning of what would be a whole industry trend for merchant silicon to support both macro 5G and massive MIMO revenues in the future. So that design is a little bit of a timing uncertainty. Hopefully, you're at Mobile World Congress and you'll be able to catch a lot more glimpse of these products that I'm super excited about for sure. Regarding on the broadband side, a Tier 1 operator we refer to in engagement. We expect that to be a major driver in 2026 but could have a little bit of revenue '25 short. Now we talked about two major North American operators, but you must understand that we never talked about a gateway design per se in a Tier 1 operator. We talked about there are multiple product lines within these Tier 1 operators. but this would be a whole gateway design at a Tier 1 operator. Quinn Bolton Is that PON and Wi-Fi or just a PON chip? Kishore Seendripu Yeah, it's both. When I tripped a gateway these days, it's de facto. It has Wi-Fi. It's a full PON 10 GS-PON gateway with a processor that supports 10Gbps speeds plus the world's first tri-band signal chip Wi-Fi access point solution along with our own Ethernet quad-port 2.5Gbps Ethernet 5. Quinn Bolton Perfect. Thank you, Kishore. Kishore Seendripu Thank you. Operator Suji Desilva, ROTH Capital Partners. Suji Desilva Hi, Kishore. Hi, Steve. Just wanted to see maybe double click down on the 1Q guidance, appreciate the segment color. But I'm just trying to understand if infrastructure is likely growing and continuing to ramp up here, where the offsets to that are? And what would -- have you be at the low end if you have a segment like infrastructure that's ramping strong? Just trying to understand some colors that puts and takes there. Steven Litchfield Yeah, look, I think we're excited. The infrastructure is probably the biggest grow for the year, and that's certainly the one that we've got a lot happening around. But I mean, we'll definitely see broadband grow as we stated in Q1 and likely at the end of year at a much higher level. I mean, the one that's been weak has been industrial. And I think we're still, like many of our peers, kind of working through that. Demand is soft. There's a little bit of inventory out there, but I think it's really more about demand. And certainly, connectivity is starting to recover as well as we talked about along with broadband. Suji Desilva Okay. That's helpful Steve, thanks. And then maybe for Kishore, I know Tore asked about the news this week but maybe topically also CPOs being discussed whether it's in videos, in-house solution, or merchant vendors like Marvell. I'm just curious if you could update us on your thoughts and whether CPOs impact to your opportunities orthogonal, or whether it's a great opportunity, or whether it's something at risk. Any color there would help as people are looking for that in 800 1.6T. Kishore Seendripu Well, you know, CPOs have now done the third incarnation in the discussion in the data center optical interconnect space, right? But there is always other vendors with optics, and CPOs are part of the discussion engagements we always constantly have. But our goal is a pure DSP PAM4 TIA type vendor story. Whether it's linear, optical transceivers, if you will, or the next generation 400 gigabit per lambda -- silicon for that, that supports it. I look at our presence and focus on data center is beyond optics. And that's why we call that high-speed interconnects, right? Because we're a silicon provider, it spans not just the interconnect connection, but any kind of high throughput interconnects within a compute or storage environment target addressable market for us. So CPOs is one element of it. For that, you have to have your own optics and/or your partner with optics players to enable that. I just think that there's many, many years before CPOs. If ever become viable because of their various issues of quality, yield, power, and the footprint, and then how they lock in a lot of ASP on the quality front that it goes to waste if it is not really properly actualized. Suji Desilva Yeah. Great. Thanks, Kishore. Operator Karl Ackerman, BNP Paribas. Sam Feldman Hi, this is Sam Feldman on for Karl Ackerman. So you indicated that your DSP business will ramp in 2025 giving your engagements at hyperscalers. What gives you confidence it can double, given Amazon indicated that 800 gig may not rental 2026, positioning the DSP ramp (technical difficulty) 800 gig? Kishore Seendripu Look, there's a large, large opportunity that is 400 gig. And 800 gig really last for many, many years, and that also answers Suji's question about CPOs honestly. So our revenues are a mix of both 400 gig and 800 gig. And as Tore pointed out, we are new entrants in this market space and the third player. So we have a large revenues in the optically ticket that we can go and access. Regarding -- there's two markets here. We have always maintained that. The line side is really delayed relative to what I call the compute side, which is the AI network and the very, very different markets. So the line-side markets are indeed delayed. Not delayed, I would say they've always been sort of (inaudible) becomes much later, and I think they're on track on the front. And Amazon is not the only one, right? There's Meta, there's Microsoft, and everybody else. And our roadmap, frankly, followed the cadence of the line-side markets. And we have always -- we have said that we are not a player in the NVIDIA market in terms of as being what happened in the past. And so that is the reality of it. So I think that you are complaining about the markets and very different markets in terms of the timeline, how they're evolving. And same will be true for 1.6 terabits, by the way. I would say that it'll be a long while before 1.6 terabits or 200 gig per lambda becomes a meaningful portion of the shipment of the revenues. Until after 400 gig and 800 gig, that's really, really run their course. Sam Feldman Understood. Thank you. Operator David Williams, Benchmark Company. David Williams Hey, good afternoon, gentlemen. Thanks for taking my questions. I guess maybe first, and Kishore, I think you mentioned this in your script earlier, and I may have missed it. But just wondering if you could give us a little indication on that the 2.5G Ethernet and byproduct Swam Creek there. And I know you've talked about governments there and major Tier 1 enterprise OEM customers with multiple design wins. But how is that ramping? And maybe just say any of the color around that feedback or demand trends that you're seeing for the Swan Creek product line? Thank you. Kishore Seendripu So I think Swan Creek as a product goes probably one of the most successful products that we have ever designed and the kind of demand for the product. It's premier, it's highly differentiated. It's as out planned. Anybody's offering on the 200 gig -- 2.5 gigabit multi-port switch category. And we, frankly, ourselves were quite surprised with the amount of traction it has. And it's pretty much designed with all the major players on routers and gateways and even on the industrial side as well. It's a very unique product. It can do multiple ports all the way from four to eight. And two of those switch ports can be compounded to do a 32-port solution as well. So it's got extremely good traction. And with this Tier 1 OEM, we were supposed to have actually RAM stronger towards the end of last year. That has not happened, but it's gotten delayed. But the RAM continues in the sense that the plans remain intact. It's a major platform. And I believe that as we head towards the rest of the year, it will start ramping. And in '26, '27, '28, '29, it will be a pretty strong run rate position. And the overall product really, we believe, can be $100 million per year revenue product line for ethernet over the next two to three years. And the mix would be single-fives and multi-port fives and switches in equal proportion are more tilted towards the multi-port fives and switch. Okay. David Williams Thanks for the color there. Anything regionally that you're saying that speak of in terms of demand trends around maybe China or even North America. How are you seeing, I guess, geographically, how demand trends and anything you would point to there? Thank you. Kishore Seendripu Absolutely. Most of the -- all of these designs in these markets happened in Taiwan or China. And that's where most of our activity that support activities sales. That activity is up. So I would say that while the end markets are quite varied, but primarily the end markets are US and China centric, which you should expect, given the largest markets in the world, right? So we're quite happy about it. David Williams Thank you. Operator Alec Valero, Loop Capital Markets. Alec Valero Hey, guys, thanks for taking my question. This is Alek on for Ananda. I have two quick questions. So my first question is, as we go from 800G that 3.2T, you guys see yourself becoming -- do you guys see yourself as being more attractive to customers? If so, what do those dynamics look like? Steven Litchfield Look, really, really speaking with our -- you have the entrenched incumbents as one would duly give them credit for, which is both Marvell and Broadcom. They come at it very, very differently in terms of the competitive force, if you will. However, there's only one credible new entrenched on the optical transceiver space by far. There's nobody even close to what we offer. And what we offer is extremely low power in the 800 gigabit solution and 400 gigabit solution for 100 gig per lane design, which is the latest -- which is the newest generation of products that are ramping or will be ramping soon, like one of the analysts brought about the Amazon delay, for example. So the differentiation really comes from extremely low power. And we all now know whether it's an AI network or any data center, power, power, power is the key and that's where we built our core competencies as a company. So I believe that -- and we also seen shortages on DSPs and optical module solutions in the last few years as all data centers try to upgrade to new technologies. So there's a genuine demand for a third supplier. It is where everybody wants a third supplier. And we hope to first build our position as a third supplier and then build from there. And that's been our game plan from day one. And the fact that we went to 0 to $40 million last year is proof of that. It's million units. That's pretty substantial. And hopefully, we can do much, much better this year and leading up to next year. And I think we are very pleased with the progress. Now, this has entailed a lot of investment on our side. I know, and all analysts, you always have OPEC's questions, but I just want to be very, very clear that this is a strategic area of interest, investment, a high-growth market area. And we intend to continue to invest very, very strongly in this space to expand our portfolio beyond the optical space. Okay. I think that's where our strategic trust is right now in the infrastructure space. Alec Valero Got it. Thank you. Just a quick follow up. So would you guys tech in the world of co-packaged optics? Do you guys believe that advantages you guys, disadvantages you guys, or is it net-neutral to you? Steven Litchfield I would say it may be a net positive because if our competitors are invested in optics and they try to do a fully integrated CPO, there are more optics producers in the world who are more competent and really, really excellent at that. And the market capacity will require that those optics players are part of the supply ecosystem. And therefore, they need a pure-play silicon vendor and max absolutely the pure-play silicon player in this, no cables, no optics, and that sort of a thing. So I think it's a net positive for us from a sort of creating a pool for what we provide. And it would be the alternative that would attach the best optics along with our DSP. Alec Valero Got it. Thank you for that. Appreciate it, guys. Operator Christopher Rolland, Susquehanna International Group. Christopher Rolland Hey, guys. Thanks for the question. I guess around optical, maybe if you had a range of optical units that we might expect in 2025. Like would there be a bull case to do 2 million units, or maybe even more, or put another way, maybe market share? And maybe tying into this, Kishore, you talked about low power. How should we think about low power as you move to 4 nanometers, but competitors move to 3? Or are you still have that advantage? Kishore Seendripu So I'll let Steve talk to you about some of the colors on the -- I just want to add these things that obviously competitive advantages and power and performance are incredibly important. We take that seriously. And we are absolutely confident we'll come out this thing. And that's the secret sauce of our design and architectural capabilities. That's number one. And the other part is the whole thing is like last I checked the latest report, that 20 million units of transceiver modules are shipped. And we have told you that 1 million units we have shipped. So I know it's not about 10% right now. I'm pretty proud of the 5% market share, right? But that's the way I would give it. But beyond that, we don't provide color on these because there are various uncertainties on timing and that sort of a thing. But I would stand by the guidance that Steve earlier talked about, $60 million to $70 million. Yeah, you should expect that. Can we do better? I desperately want us to do much better than that. So that much I promise you. Okay. Christopher Rolland Great. And Kishore, maybe just revisiting Tore's question and all this concern about DeepSeq this week. I mean, it had your stock off quite a bit itself, maybe not as much as others, but was still off. And I understand your comments about democratizing AI, but it seems like democratizing AI on open-source hardware is not very networking intensive. And so I just kind of wanted to revisit this. How these more efficient architectures might affect either inference in your opinion or training in your opinion, and mega clusters, for example, that seem to be very optically intensive? Just in terms of DSPs units, transceiver volumes for you guys. And if there was some sort of a reset in order rates, when would we know? It doesn't sound like you've seen anything over the past week in terms of a reset, but any thoughts on how this would play out or when we would know? Kishore Seendripu Well, this weakness is two chart, number one. Number two is that, look, these dynamics are beyond my understanding. And all I know is that we make extremely good products, very low power, high performance. And the demand is huge enough even otherwise. Before the AI world happened, that's when we started on the roadmap, right? There was chatGPT before, right? Nobody knew there was chatGPT and that would drive the market. And likewise, I don't know what DeepSeq is going to do. But all I know is that even if there were no AI networks present, the market was very, very huge. So from my point of view, it's a fantastic market. There is no reaction from me in any direction. Stay the course. The market will be exciting for us, for MaxLinier. And I really don't have thoughts about this, but I don't think we should be surprised of disruptive innovations. And that would make us more competitive. And we have a huge appetite as human beings, right? We just eat whatever comes, how much over cheap it is, right? So we'll just gobble more of it. But the tab dollars I don't expect to reduce, okay? Christopher Rolland Great answer. Thanks, Kishore. Operator Tore Svanberg, Stifel. Tore Svanberg Yes. I just had a follow-up, Kishore, because there was a lot of talk about your optical DSP business. But you have also announced getting into AEC, ACC. There is obviously a discreet TIA market out there. So can you just talk a little bit about that when we think about that $60 million, $70 million, is that predominantly optical DSP? Or are you also starting to see some contribution from AEC, ACC, and discreet TIAs? And one of your largest competitors just announced LPO here before the end of the year. So I assume, given your capabilities, you are now probably working on LPO as well, right? Kishore Seendripu Absolutely, I mean, LPO is just a derivative of what we do on the larger DSPs. I don't know why people make such a big deal about LPO. Anybody can do this with the DSP PAM4. There just needs to be three people, but still, number one. Our revenues predominantly, they are 800 gig and some 400 gig, and they will be some AEC. Having said that, the AEC market is still pretty small. And we are -- and the market being small, and one data center until now trying to deploy AECs. It's still the verdict remains unclear whether it's going to be a sort of across the board promulgation because there are dynamics a copper side that are quite different. So without getting into the details, our own revenues are dominated by the 800 gig, 400 gig, and some AEC. We do have AECs that have already qualified, and therefore, we expect revenues to start. How big? I don't think it's still a big market there that would overrule many of the optical revenues that we will be generating. So regarding the LPO's, I think I've answered that question. ACC is even more tiny, and I think that verdict remains very questionable. If ACCs are questionable in terms of market size, ACC's propagation. But we have our eyes set on all of these targets, right? And we're not pulling back. We are doing everything, design-ins and so on and so forth. But I'm just being an honest assessment of our own revenues where they are. So the answer to your question is affirmative. On the TIAs, clearly, we are one of the three DSP vendors on the optical side. And we work with partners on the TIAs, but it is foolhardy for us to think that we will be able to sell TIAs to our other two competitors on their platforms, right? So the expectation for our TIAs is so much more predominantly controlling our own platform and destiny and being cost competitive and power competitive, not as much as trying to build a TIA business. So I'm just making sure you understand that TIAs as a revenue stream is really attached to our DSPs and not -- I'm not aware of anything outside of that environment in terms of our go-to-market plan. Tore Svanberg Yeah, that's exactly the color I was looking for. Thank you, Kishore. Operator Thank you. There are no further questions at this time. I'd like to pass the floor back over to Kishore for closing remarks. Kishore Seendripu So thank you, operator. And I want to once again thank every one of you. Hey, Happy New Year. You all sounded muted. Just wake up. It's all exciting times moving forward, and I would wish you a happy new year once again. And this quarter, we'll be presenting a number of financial conference and virtual events. We'll post the details on our investor relations page. Thank you very much, and happy new year once again to all of you. Operator This concludes today's teleconference. You may disconnect your lines at this time. Thank you for your participation.
