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Adding life to years, not years to life – as of this week, 65 is the new 60
Adding life to years, not years to life – as of this week, 65 is the new 60

Daily Maverick

time26-05-2025

  • Business
  • Daily Maverick

Adding life to years, not years to life – as of this week, 65 is the new 60

This week, the mandatory retirement age in South Africa officially goes up from age 60 to 65. On the surface, this is a policy shift driven by longer lifespans and economic realities – a global trend hitting home. On a deeper level, it will likely affect many people, especially those over or close to 60 who were perhaps looking forward to retiring. Many will be focusing on the practicalities: planning differently for a longer working life. For others, this change may be an opportunity for a much bigger, more vital conversation about how they plan to spend their precious leisure time in the years ahead. A global shift It is not just South Africa where retirement is moving out. In the US in the 1980s, there were about 2.5 million people who worked past age 65. That number is now 11 million – an increase of 400%. In that same time, the US population has only increased by 50%. The scales, it would seem, are tipping towards longer working lives. According to futurist Tracey Follows, retirement might not even exist in the Western world by 2040. The rising cost of living and lengthening life expectancies mean it may be necessary for people to continue working into their old age to support themselves. Indeed, a recent study by Sanlam Corporate found that most South Africans will now need to work until they are 80 to retire comfortably. Maybe this is not such a bad thing. For years, we've accepted the notion that, at a certain age, we should universally step away from purposeful contribution. But does that truly serve us? Is a fixed retirement age an outdated concept we've clung to? Perhaps the question needs to be not just about when we retire, but if the traditional concept of retirement – a relatively new idea in and of itself – is due for retirement. A brief history of a recent invention In the Stone Age, you worked till your death. Most people were dead by 20. This was the case for millions of years. Up until the 1800s, nowhere in the world had a life expectancy higher than 40 years. In the early 1900s, the average life expectancy was only 32. Retirement as we know it was only proposed in 1881 by Otto von Bismarck, ruler of Prussia. Von Bismarck suggested the government give pensions to the few German citizens who lived over 70. Life expectancy in Germany at the time was 39 years. The policy was passed. But the message was clear: most people will not retire as they wouldn't make it that far. That remained the message when retirement was introduced in the 1930s in the US for people over the age of 65. Life expectancy for American men was around 58 at the time. Globally, life expectancy is now over 70. As a result, some suggest that the retirement age should be pushed to 75. Governments are not opposed to raising the threshold – in the UK, the retirement age is set to increase to 67 in the next three years. In France, millions-strong protests ensued after the government raised the pension age from 62 to 64. The value of knowledge in an economy Leaving aside the issue of the financial necessity of working, there is broader value for keeping older people in the working world. Tertiary institutions across the world know the value of retaining skills beyond the age of 65. The US and Europe, for example, are teeming with professors above the retirement age. A total of 13% of US professors are over 65, compared with just 6% of other US workers. There are many reasons for this, including that professors possess invaluable expertise and knowledge. But it's not just them: people reach the peak of their expertise in their sixties. They do not stop adding value after 65. That is where the concept of phased retirement comes into its own. A staggered or phased retirement that sees retirees step back but still contribute could hold many benefits for organisations and workers alike: enabling skills transfer; more time to find and train new candidates; mentoring and coaching opportunities; and the retention of highly skilled workers at a reduced cost due to fewer hours worked. In South Africa, it could also create much-needed space in the workforce for unemployed young people. Additionally, a phased approach provides retirees a chance to buy more time for family, leisure, travel and taking care of their health, without having to dip into their retirement fund. The question then becomes, how might these phased retirees, with more time on their hands and no real financial pressure, spend their time? Stepping away from work, even partially, can result in a loss of identity and vitality for many, even if it feels like a deserved break. Perhaps they could be encouraged to volunteer as a way to add meaning to their life and that of others. For some, it might be to start a business. According to the Global Entrepreneurship Monitor, the number of entrepreneurs over 55 is on the rise. Are young people pointing the way? While we can't predict the future, observing current megatrends – long-term driving forces that are likely to have a growing global impact – can give us a good sense of where things might end up. Changing demographics is one such megatrend, and a key sign that traditional retirement could be on the way out is how younger generations already live and work. Thanks to the gig economy and remote-working options, many young people have embraced hybrid lives, integrating work with substantial leisure. For many millennials, the idea of a traditional retirement – one focused on leisure and relaxation – has evolved into a desire for greater work flexibility. The point is that those of us who have had the privilege to work – and who have the privilege to retire – also have the privilege to think imaginatively about what we want to do with our time, whether working or playing. If we are living longer, how can we add life to our years rather than just years to our life? Many South Africans do not have this opportunity – not just to retire, but to work in the first place. Our unemployment rate reached 41.9% in Q4 of 2024. Many will never be employed in the formal economy – they won't have retirement plans, phased or otherwise. It's a stark reminder that in our country, retirement and leisure are not universal rights, and we should not squander them. DM

China & Russia will use drones ‘size of insects' to spy on West & commit untraceable murders, ex-Google futurist warns
China & Russia will use drones ‘size of insects' to spy on West & commit untraceable murders, ex-Google futurist warns

Scottish Sun

time26-05-2025

  • Scottish Sun

China & Russia will use drones ‘size of insects' to spy on West & commit untraceable murders, ex-Google futurist warns

Click to share on X/Twitter (Opens in new window) Click to share on Facebook (Opens in new window) KILLER camouflage drones the size of insects could be used by Russia and China to commit untraceable murders, an ex-Google futurist warns. Tracey Follows, who has also worked with Amazon and Meta, warned they could even carry deadly pathogens and be used to spy on the UK. Sign up for Scottish Sun newsletter Sign up 3 The warning echoes the plot of an episode of Black Mirror featuring robot bees Credit: NETFLIX 3 The Black Mirror episode features swarms on drone insects known as 'ADIs' And it is a prediction which is a chilling echo of the Black Mirror episode "Hated in the Nation". The near future sci-fi show envisioned of world where robot bees designed to pollinate flowers could be hijacked to commit murder. The Future of You author told The Sun: 'In time, one expects a drone to have the situational awareness to carry out an attack autonomously without a human in the loop. 'The big question is what's the payload on these drones, what are you actually attaching to the drone? 'Increasingly, over the last four or five years, I've been reading about viruses and how you can potentially attach a pathogen to these sorts of weapons. 'So not only can you identify somebody personally, you can then attack them with a virus, for example.' Terrifyingly, she warned it could open the door for rogue nations like Russia to assassinate targets on UK soil without leaving a trace. Moscow was infamously accused of poisoning ex-Russian spy, Sergei Skripal, in Salisbury in 2018. Skirpal and his daughter, Yulia, survived but local woman Dawn Sturgess was inadvertently killed when she sprayed what she thought was perfume on her wrists. Russia denies any involvement. Before that, Skripal was convicted of spying for Britain in 2006 and jailed for 13 years. Watch terrifying vision of secret Chinese drone mothership that can launch vast AI killer swarms - as it's set to take to skies in days But in future, drone attacks could make it impossible to identify a culprit. Follows, who founded consultancy service Futuremade, said: 'If you can camouflage these micro weapons, and if you've got technology that's so advanced that the enemy country doesn't know what's happened, you can't really trace exactly what's happened. 'If you're adding a virus as a payload onto a drone, it could be a completely new virus. 'You may not know what that virus is in your country and it's attacked somebody individually because it's autonomously targeted and activated against that person." Follows, ranked in the world's Top 30 Futurists by Global Gurus, added: 'I don't think it's just Russia and China that one has to worry about. 'I think it's anybody, in any country, in any region who is starting to integrate AI into the military and into these lethal weapons.' Drone technology continues to advance at an alarming rate as the AI explosion shows no signs of slowing down. This month, chilling images emerged of a new Chinese 'mothership' drone carrier that can launch swarms of mini-drones. The small drones would then work together to 'swarm' enemies. State broadcaster CCTV said its inaugural mission will launch on Monday. Chinese drone carrier that can launch deadly swarms by James Moules, Foreign News Reporter A NEW Chinese drone carrier that can launch deadly swarms against enemy targets could take to the skies within days. This unmanned "drone mother ship" is expected to take off for its first mission as part of a terrifying drive to boost the Chinese air force's combat capabilities. Named Jiu Tian - meaning "nine heavens" - this unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) would add to China's ability to "swarm" enemies. This tactic involves releasing vast swarms of drones that work together to overwhelm enemy air defence systems. A video widely circulated on X shows a visualisation of the aircraft's capabilities - demonstrating its ability to release vast swarms of deadly drones. China's state broadcaster CCTV confirmed its inaugural mission on Monday. The jet-powered drone will start by undergoing a series of tests before it is fully deployed by the Chinese air force. Boasting a carrying capacity of up to six tonnes of ammunition and small-sized drones, the UAV has a maximum range of 4,350 miles and altitude of 50,000 feet. Swarms of drones, including kamikaze UAVs, can be released from both sides of the aircraft's belly. Terrifyingly, it is reportedly able to fly above many medium-range defence systems currently deployed around the world. READ MORE HERE Follows warned that not only are drones becoming better at identifying targets, but people are simply becoming easier to track down. She said: 'I spoke to Erik Prince. He's the biggest kind of private military contractor in the world, and the founder of Blackwater. 'Among other things, he co-founded a company called Unplugged, which brings privacy to your mobile phone. So it doesn't collect any data.' She added: 'So he's very aware of communications technologies and how they can be used for surveillance. 'He talked to me about the way in which drones can do precision targeting now if the data is available on your AI, a sort of advertising ID, if you like. 'So if you've got stuff on your phone and you've got an identification on your phone, if you're carrying that with you, the drone can identify that and that can be set to attack.' As technology continues to advance rapidly, so too do security and privacy concerns. Follows warns that drones may also pave the way to record personal conversations without consent. 3 Could China and Russia really use insect-size drones? What happened to Sergei Skripal? FORMER Russian double agent Sergei Skripal was poisoned by the nerve agent Novichok in his adopted hometown of Salisbury in March 2018. The nerve attack, which also poisoned his daughter Yulia, sparked a diplomatic row between the UK and Russia. Sergei was a Russian military intelligence officer who was convicted in 2006 of spying for the United Kingdom. Skripal was accused by Russian prosecutors of working for MI6 in the late 1990s and passing secrets to the British using a James Bond-style spy rock. At the time, he was serving in the Russian Ground Forces and was nicknamed "the Spy with the Louis Vuitton bag" because of his taste for luxury goods. In 2006 he was released in a spy swap and moved to the UK where he settled in Salisbury. Sergei's wife Liudmila died from cancer in 2012 and in 2017 he lost his older brother and his 43-year-old son Alexandr. The ex-KGB spy and his daughter Yulia, 36, were exposed to a nerve agent and fell gravely ill after having a pizza lunch in Salisbury on Sunday, March 4, 2018. They were found slumped on a bench in a "catatonic state" and spent weeks critically ill in hospital. Anti-terror police investigated the poisoning and discovered the agent used was military-grade Novichok, made in Russia. Russia denied that their special services were involved in the attack, which sparked a diplomatic spat and the expulsion of embassy staff. Police believe the pair were exposed to the nerve agent after it was left on the front door of his home. Worse, they could even film us without us being aware we're being filmed at all. That would therefore spark a race with the technology used to detect them. Asked if drones the size of flies will one day be able to film us, she added: 'They probably will be able to, yes. 'DARPA (a US military research agency) used to have a program called SHRIMP and they put it out as a competition for researchers, engineers and computer scientists to come back and say, how could you do these tiny micro drones? 'The problem was with the energy as they're so small. You can't get the energy in them for them to be transported for a long enough distance or carry out the actions you want them to. 'So they had this short range micro micro robotics program. And that was in 2019, and it's all gone very quiet since then. 'I'm always suspicious when things go quiet because I know that it's going into sort of patent territory. 'People are working on things in the research process, and then something will come out. There is absolutely no reason why they can't be doing short range conversation recording."

China & Russia will use drones ‘size of insects' to spy on West & commit untraceable murders, ex-Google futurist warns
China & Russia will use drones ‘size of insects' to spy on West & commit untraceable murders, ex-Google futurist warns

The Irish Sun

time26-05-2025

  • The Irish Sun

China & Russia will use drones ‘size of insects' to spy on West & commit untraceable murders, ex-Google futurist warns

KILLER camouflage drones the size of insects could be used by Russia and China to commit untraceable murders, an ex-Google futurist warns. Tracey Follows, who has also worked with Amazon and Meta, warned they could even carry deadly pathogens and be used to spy on the UK. 3 The warning echoes the plot of an episode of Black Mirror featuring robot bees Credit: NETFLIX 3 The Black Mirror episode features swarms on drone insects known as 'ADIs' And it is a prediction which is a chilling echo of the Black Mirror episode "Hated in the Nation". The near future sci-fi show envisioned of world where robot bees designed to pollinate flowers could be hijacked to commit murder. The Future of You author told The Sun: 'In time, one expects a drone to have the situational awareness to carry out an attack autonomously without a human in the loop. 'The big question is what's the payload on these drones, what are you actually attaching to the drone? READ MORE ON DRONES 'Increasingly, over the last four or five years, I've been reading about viruses and how you can potentially attach a pathogen to these sorts of weapons. 'So not only can you identify somebody personally, you can then attack them with a virus, for example.' Terrifyingly, she warned it could open the door for rogue nations like Russia to assassinate targets on UK soil without leaving a trace. Moscow was infamously accused of poisoning ex-Russian spy, Sergei Skripal, in Salisbury in 2018. Most read in The US Sun Skirpal and his daughter, Yulia, survived but local woman Dawn Sturgess was inadvertently killed when she sprayed what she thought was perfume on her wrists. Russia denies any involvement. Before that, Skripal was convicted of spying for Britain in 2006 and jailed for 13 years. Watch terrifying vision of secret Chinese drone mothership that can launch vast AI killer swarms - as it's set to take to skies in days But in future, drone attacks could make it impossible to identify a culprit. Follows, who founded consultancy service Futuremade, said: 'If you can camouflage these micro weapons, and if you've got technology that's so advanced that the enemy country doesn't know what's happened, you can't really trace exactly what's happened. 'If you're adding a virus as a payload onto a drone, it could be a completely new virus. 'You may not know what that virus is in your country and it's attacked somebody individually because it's autonomously targeted and activated against that person." Follows, ranked in the world's Top 30 Futurists by Global Gurus, added: 'I don't think it's just Russia and China that one has to worry about. 'I think it's anybody, in any country, in any region who is starting to integrate AI into the military and into these lethal weapons.' Drone technology continues to advance at an alarming rate as the AI explosion shows no signs of slowing down. This month, chilling images emerged of a new Chinese 'mothership' drone carrier that can launch swarms of mini-drones. The small drones would then work together to 'swarm' enemies. State broadcaster CCTV said its inaugural mission will launch on Monday. Chinese drone carrier that can launch deadly swarms by James Moules, Foreign News Reporter A NEW Chinese drone carrier that can launch deadly swarms against enemy targets could take to the skies within days. This unmanned "drone mother ship" is expected to take off for its first mission as part of a terrifying drive to boost the Chinese air force's combat capabilities. Named Jiu Tian - meaning "nine heavens" - this unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) would add to China's ability to "swarm" enemies. This tactic involves releasing vast swarms of drones that work together to overwhelm enemy air defence systems. A video widely circulated on X shows a visualisation of the aircraft's capabilities - demonstrating its ability to release vast swarms of deadly drones. China's state broadcaster CCTV confirmed its inaugural mission on Monday. The jet-powered drone will start by undergoing a series of tests before it is fully deployed by the Chinese air force. Boasting a carrying capacity of up to six tonnes of ammunition and small-sized drones, the UAV has a maximum range of 4,350 miles and altitude of 50,000 feet. Swarms of drones, including kamikaze UAVs, can be released from both sides of the aircraft's belly. Terrifyingly, it is reportedly able to fly above many medium-range defence systems currently deployed around the world. Follows warned that not only are drones becoming better at identifying targets, but people are simply becoming easier to track down. She said: 'I spoke to Erik Prince. He's the biggest kind of private military contractor in the world, and the founder of Blackwater. 'Among other things, he co-founded a company called Unplugged, which brings privacy to your mobile phone. So it doesn't collect any data.' She added: 'So he's very aware of communications technologies and how they can be used for surveillance. 'He talked to me about the way in which drones can do precision targeting now if the data is available on your AI, a sort of advertising ID, if you like. 'So if you've got stuff on your phone and you've got an identification on your phone, if you're carrying that with you, the drone can identify that and that can be set to attack.' As technology continues to advance rapidly, so too do security and privacy concerns. Follows warns that drones may also pave the way to record personal conversations without consent. 3 Could China and Russia really use insect-size drones? What happened to Sergei Skripal? FORMER Russian double agent Sergei Skripal was poisoned by the nerve agent Novichok in his adopted hometown of Salisbury in March 2018. The nerve attack, which also poisoned his daughter Yulia, sparked a diplomatic row between the UK and Russia. Sergei was a Russian military intelligence officer who was convicted in 2006 of spying for the United Kingdom. Skripal was accused by Russian prosecutors of working for MI6 in the late 1990s and passing secrets to the British using a James Bond-style spy rock. At the time, he was In 2006 he was released in a spy swap and moved to the UK where he settled in Salisbury. The ex-KGB spy and his daughter They were found slumped on a bench in a "catatonic state" and spent weeks critically ill in hospital. Anti-terror police investigated the poisoning and discovered the agent used was military-grade Novichok, made in Russia. Russia denied that their special services were involved in the attack, which sparked a diplomatic spat and the expulsion of embassy staff. Police believe the Worse, they could even film us without us being aware we're being filmed at all. That would therefore spark a race with the technology used to detect them. Asked if drones the size of flies will one day be able to film us, she added: 'They probably will be able to, yes. 'DARPA (a US military research agency) used to have a program called SHRIMP and they put it out as a competition for researchers, engineers and computer scientists to come back and say, how could you do these tiny micro drones? 'The problem was with the energy as they're so small. You can't get the energy in them for them to be transported for a long enough distance or carry out the actions you want them to. 'So they had this short range micro micro robotics program. And that was in 2019, and it's all gone very quiet since then. 'I'm always suspicious when things go quiet because I know that it's going into sort of patent territory. 'People are working on things in the research process, and then something will come out. There is absolutely no reason why they can't be doing short range conversation recording."

China & Russia will use drones ‘size of insects' to spy on West & commit untraceable murders, ex-Google futurist warns
China & Russia will use drones ‘size of insects' to spy on West & commit untraceable murders, ex-Google futurist warns

The Sun

time26-05-2025

  • The Sun

China & Russia will use drones ‘size of insects' to spy on West & commit untraceable murders, ex-Google futurist warns

KILLER camouflage drones the size of insects could be used by Russia and China to commit untraceable murders, an ex-Google futurist warns. Tracey Follows, who has also worked with Amazon and Meta, warned they could even carry deadly pathogens and be used to spy on the UK. 3 3 And it is a prediction which is a chilling echo of the Black Mirror episode "Hated in the Nation". The near future sci-fi show envisioned of world where robot bees designed to pollinate flowers could be hijacked to commit murder. The Future of You author told The Sun: 'In time, one expects a drone to have the situational awareness to carry out an attack autonomously without a human in the loop. 'The big question is what's the payload on these drones, what are you actually attaching to the drone? 'Increasingly, over the last four or five years, I've been reading about viruses and how you can potentially attach a pathogen to these sorts of weapons. 'So not only can you identify somebody personally, you can then attack them with a virus, for example.' Terrifyingly, she warned it could open the door for rogue nations like Russia to assassinate targets on UK soil without leaving a trace. Moscow was infamously accused of poisoning ex-Russian spy, Sergei Skripal, in Salisbury in 2018. Skirpal and his daughter, Yulia, survived but local woman Dawn Sturgess was inadvertently killed when she sprayed what she thought was perfume on her wrists. Russia denies any involvement. Before that, Skripal was convicted of spying for Britain in 2006 and jailed for 13 years. Watch terrifying vision of secret Chinese drone mothership that can launch vast AI killer swarms - as it's set to take to skies in days But in future, drone attacks could make it impossible to identify a culprit. Follows, who founded consultancy service Futuremade, said: 'If you can camouflage these micro weapons, and if you've got technology that's so advanced that the enemy country doesn't know what's happened, you can't really trace exactly what's happened. 'If you're adding a virus as a payload onto a drone, it could be a completely new virus. 'You may not know what that virus is in your country and it's attacked somebody individually because it's autonomously targeted and activated against that person." Follows, ranked in the world's Top 30 Futurists by Global Gurus, added: 'I don't think it's just Russia and China that one has to worry about. 'I think it's anybody, in any country, in any region who is starting to integrate AI into the military and into these lethal weapons.' Drone technology continues to advance at an alarming rate as the AI explosion shows no signs of slowing down. This month, chilling images emerged of a new Chinese 'mothership' drone carrier that can launch swarms of mini-drones. The small drones would then work together to 'swarm' enemies. State broadcaster CCTV said its inaugural mission will launch on Monday. Chinese drone carrier that can launch deadly swarms by James Moules, Foreign News Reporter A NEW Chinese drone carrier that can launch deadly swarms against enemy targets could take to the skies within days. This unmanned "drone mother ship" is expected to take off for its first mission as part of a terrifying drive to boost the Chinese air force's combat capabilities. Named Jiu Tian - meaning "nine heavens" - this unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) would add to China's ability to "swarm" enemies. This tactic involves releasing vast swarms of drones that work together to overwhelm enemy air defence systems. A video widely circulated on X shows a visualisation of the aircraft's capabilities - demonstrating its ability to release vast swarms of deadly drones. China's state broadcaster CCTV confirmed its inaugural mission on Monday. The jet-powered drone will start by undergoing a series of tests before it is fully deployed by the Chinese air force. Boasting a carrying capacity of up to six tonnes of ammunition and small-sized drones, the UAV has a maximum range of 4,350 miles and altitude of 50,000 feet. Swarms of drones, including kamikaze UAVs, can be released from both sides of the aircraft's belly. Terrifyingly, it is reportedly able to fly above many medium-range defence systems currently deployed around the world. Follows warned that not only are drones becoming better at identifying targets, but people are simply becoming easier to track down. She said: 'I spoke to Erik Prince. He's the biggest kind of private military contractor in the world, and the founder of Blackwater. 'Among other things, he co-founded a company called Unplugged, which brings privacy to your mobile phone. So it doesn't collect any data.' She added: 'So he's very aware of communications technologies and how they can be used for surveillance. 'He talked to me about the way in which drones can do precision targeting now if the data is available on your AI, a sort of advertising ID, if you like. 'So if you've got stuff on your phone and you've got an identification on your phone, if you're carrying that with you, the drone can identify that and that can be set to attack.' As technology continues to advance rapidly, so too do security and privacy concerns. Follows warns that drones may also pave the way to record personal conversations without consent. 3 What happened to Sergei Skripal? FORMER Russian double agent Sergei Skripal was poisoned by the nerve agent Novichok in his adopted hometown of Salisbury in March 2018. The nerve attack, which also poisoned his daughter Yulia, sparked a diplomatic row between the UK and Russia. Sergei was a Russian military intelligence officer who was convicted in 2006 of spying for the United Kingdom. Skripal was accused by Russian prosecutors of working for MI6 in the late 1990s and passing secrets to the British using a James Bond-style spy rock. At the time, he was serving in the Russian Ground Forces and was nicknamed "the Spy with the Louis Vuitton bag" because of his taste for luxury goods. In 2006 he was released in a spy swap and moved to the UK where he settled in Salisbury. Sergei's wife Liudmila died from cancer in 2012 and in 2017 he lost his older brother and his 43-year-old son Alexandr. The ex-KGB spy and his daughter Yulia, 36, were exposed to a nerve agent and fell gravely ill after having a pizza lunch in Salisbury on Sunday, March 4, 2018. They were found slumped on a bench in a "catatonic state" and spent weeks critically ill in hospital. Anti-terror police investigated the poisoning and discovered the agent used was military-grade Novichok, made in Russia. Russia denied that their special services were involved in the attack, which sparked a diplomatic spat and the expulsion of embassy staff. Police believe the pair were exposed to the nerve agent after it was left on the front door of his home. Worse, they could even film us without us being aware we're being filmed at all. That would therefore spark a race with the technology used to detect them. Asked if drones the size of flies will one day be able to film us, she added: 'They probably will be able to, yes. 'DARPA (a US military research agency) used to have a program called SHRIMP and they put it out as a competition for researchers, engineers and computer scientists to come back and say, how could you do these tiny micro drones? 'The problem was with the energy as they're so small. You can't get the energy in them for them to be transported for a long enough distance or carry out the actions you want them to. 'So they had this short range micro micro robotics program. And that was in 2019, and it's all gone very quiet since then. 'I'm always suspicious when things go quiet because I know that it's going into sort of patent territory. 'People are working on things in the research process, and then something will come out. There is absolutely no reason why they can't be doing short range conversation recording."

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