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Young people don't relate to traditional news sources
Young people don't relate to traditional news sources

Mail & Guardian

time2 days ago

  • Politics
  • Mail & Guardian

Young people don't relate to traditional news sources

There is nothing inherently magical about a newspaper. Socially, sure, the beautiful thing about a physical copy is that it can be shared, passed around and collectively leafed through. But that's not what makes it great. South Africa's youngest news consumers are disengaging from traditional journalism. South Africa's youngest news consumers are disengaging from traditional journalism. Instead, they rely on digital platforms that prioritise speed, user choice and algorithmic influence, often at the expense of credibility and sustained attention. According to the The result is a growing disconnect between young audiences and traditional media outlets. Many young people favour content that feels personal and direct, fuelling a global move toward personality-driven journalism. Influencers and independent creators often receive greater engagement than established news outlets. 'The myth is that young people don't consume media [and] news or read a lot. The reality is that they do, but have a different view of what, how and where they should find and consume it,' said Anton Harber, author and former professor at the University of the Witwatersrand and of the Mail & Guardian. Young people consume considerable amounts of media, but their consumption patterns differ from older generations, Harber explained. Journalists are struggling to connect with them on the platforms and through the formats they prefer. 'There is a disconnect between journalists and young audiences, largely being filled by influencers and chancers who often pretend to be doing journalism but have none of the verification processes, rules and ethics of journalism.' Digital platforms have introduced speed and reach, breaking down the traditional gatekeepers of information. This has expanded access to news, but it has also blurred the lines between credible reporting and unverified content. 'We are flooded by a rich mix of information and disinformation. We have less quality, in-depth, probing journalism and less capacity to know what is true or fake,' Harber said. South Africa reflects the global anxiety over misinformation. In its 2025 report, the Reuters Institute notes that 73% of South Africans are concerned about their ability to discern real from fake information online. This is on par with the United States and Nigeria, but well above the global average of 58%. In addition, the report shows that 55% of South Africans trust the news most of the time, placing the country fifth out of the 48 surveyed. This indicates that trust in news remains relatively strong, but it is steadily declining from the 61% recorded in 2022. 'There has been a deliberate campaign to undermine trust in traditional media for malicious and disruptive purposes, often by governments and organisations attempting to undermine democracy by flooding the zone with disinformation,' Harber said. Mistrust has been amplified by social media algorithms that prioritise aggravating content. Rather than offering clarity, these platforms contribute to information fatigue and deepen public scepticism. 'Social media has facilitated this by using algorithms that favour information that is disruptive, conflictual and anxiety-inducing.' Despite Harber's concerns about the structural risks of algorithmic media, the fast-paced and personalised nature of social media platforms continues to appeal to many young South Africans. Farhana Essop, a law and politics student, said she receives most of her news on Instagram. She explained that she is interested in current affairs but finds traditional forms of news outdated and 'unengaging'. Essop also believes that some newsrooms contain biases, which become embedded into the news published for public consumption. For her, social media is a reliable alternative because it can provide diverse perspectives and first-hand accounts of situations. 'There's a lot of people who are dedicated to giving you both sides and showing you what's actually happening,' she said. Despite the risk of misinformation online, Essop believes the interactive nature of social media provides more context and clarity than traditional media. For Sydney, a psychology student, the constant stream of information — however accessible — can be overwhelming. She believes that staying informed is important, but not at the expense of mental wellbeing. 'You need to be knowledgeable to some extent about what's going on. There are real problems. We need to be aware of that. But when it gets to a point where it affects your mental health and it affects how you perceive certain things — or it clashes with your views — you can distance yourself from it,' she said. Sydney believes that reporting on sensitive topics objectively can underplay the experiences of those affected. This can unintentionally distance readers from the story. 'A lot of [journalists] target very personal and intimate topics from an objective point of view, and some things can't be looked at objectively. When you don't regard the human aspect of [news], it becomes very impersonal.' Shiloh Marsh, a third-year media student, believes the way news is delivered plays a crucial role in how young people engage with it. Marsh receives news from multiple sources, including Eyewitness New s, public broadcaster SABC as well as The Sun and The Citizen . To reconnect with young people, Marsh thinks media houses should employ young reporters and news anchors. 'It's very much the same people that you saw from 20 years ago. We need new faces to interest us.' Marsh says news should be kept easy to understand, and argues that some journalists ask interviewees over-complicated questions and write in jargon that makes news inaccessible for young people. 'I think there's a huge gap between how the news is told versus how young people interpret it,' she said. The challenge lies in the media's resistance to change, Harber contends. Newsrooms must move beyond rigid, formulaic practices and adopt storytelling formats that reflect how young audiences connect with information today. To rebuild trust and remain relevant, journalism must embrace approaches that prioritise transparency and conversation. 'The research shows that young people want to see the faces of those bringing them information [to] identify with them and — most of all — they must be authentic. [Young people] want conversations, not lectures,' he added.

US Turns To Social Media For News - But Fears Of Misinformation Rise
US Turns To Social Media For News - But Fears Of Misinformation Rise

Forbes

time2 days ago

  • Politics
  • Forbes

US Turns To Social Media For News - But Fears Of Misinformation Rise

Newspaper on web portal and website Traditional news media are losing influence in the U.S., with, for the first time, most people accessing news via social media and video networks. However, according to a new report from the Reuters Institute, this is fueling misinformation, with more than half of people telling the researchers that they're concerned about their ability to tell what is true from what is false when it comes to online news. Online influencers and personalities are seen as the biggest threat worldwide, along with national politicians, both cited by 47%. Regionally, concern about influencers is highest in African countries such as Nigeria and Kenya, while politicians are seen as the biggest threat in the U.S., Spain, and much of Eastern Europe including Serbia, Slovakia and Hungary. AI chatbots and interfaces are starting to emerge as a news source, though on a small scale - only 7% of survey respondents said they use it for news each week. That figure's 15% for the under-25s. And audiences in most countries remain skeptical about the use of AI in the news, and are more confident when humans are involved. "These data may be of some comfort to news organizations hoping that AI might increase the value of human-generated news," the researchers said. "To that end we find that trusted news brands, including public service news brands in many countries, are still the most frequently named place people say they go when they want to check whether something is true or false online, along with official (government) sources." This was true across age groups, though younger people were proportionately more likely than older groups to use both AI chatbots and social media to check information. The report highlights national differences, with the U.S. moving towards online news sources at a faster rate than the rest of the world. The proportion that say social media are their main source of news, for example, is relatively flat in Japan and Denmark, though it has also increased in other countries with polarized politics such as the UK (20%) and France (19%)," the researchers said. "But in terms of overall dependence the United States seems to be on a different path – joining a set of countries in Latin America, Africa, and parts of Asia where heavy social media and political polarization have been part of the story for some time." There's a big trend towards a personality-driven alternative media sector, with more than one in five of the U.S sample saying they came across news or commentary from popular podcaster Joe Rogan in the week after Donald Trump's inauguration, including a disproportionate number of young men. Meanwhile, 14% said the same about former Fox News anchor Tucker Carlson, with other widely accessed personalities including Megyn Kelly, Candace Owens, and Ben Shapiro from the right, and Brian Tyler Cohen and David Pakman from the left. The vast majority of top creators discussing politics are men. Donald Trump has done much to court podcasters and YouTubers, while restricting the traditional media's access to press briefings. This has fueled a lack of trust. "In countries where press freedom is under threat, alternative ecosystems also offer opportunities, at their best, to bring fresh perspectives and challenge repressive governments," the Reuters Institute said. "But at the same time these changes may be contributing to rising political polarization and a coarsening debate online."

The tourist invasion of 'Instagram island': Thousands of selfie-hunting holidaymakers pack the narrow streets of Santorini to capture sunset view loved by influencers
The tourist invasion of 'Instagram island': Thousands of selfie-hunting holidaymakers pack the narrow streets of Santorini to capture sunset view loved by influencers

Daily Mail​

time2 days ago

  • Daily Mail​

The tourist invasion of 'Instagram island': Thousands of selfie-hunting holidaymakers pack the narrow streets of Santorini to capture sunset view loved by influencers

Thousands of selfie-hunting holidaymakers have packed the narrow streets of Santorini in a desperate bid to capture sunset views adored by influencers. Videos have shown the shocking reality of visiting one of the world's most idealised holiday destinations - with an 'overflow' of tourists piling together to catch a glimpse of the evening sun on the once-idyllic Greek isle of Santorini. Known for its white and blue architecture, volcanic landscape and charming villages, up to 17,000 tourists descend on the idyllic Aegan isle in the peak summer months. But sunseekers have been left far from impressed with the reality of holidaying on the volcanic island, arguing that it falls short of their expectations due to 'jam-packed streets' and 'soaring' hotel prices. Gabriella Barrass visited the picturesque coastal island in early July, forking out £2,200 on a four-day trip having been initially captivated by pictures of the crystal clear waters and small quaint Greek streets. However, the Dubai resident said that any once-breathtaking views had now become tarnished by crowds of tourists battling ferociously for the perfect spot, while another popular destination, Oia, had become so full of donkey pool that it smelt 'terrible'. Ms Barrass added that the 'incredible' photos of Santorni were somewhat deceptive, with the 'commecialised' nature of the island leaving it swamped with hordes of holidaymakers that had stripped it of its 'old school tradition and culture'. She told Luxury Travel Daily: 'The overflow of tourists at every given spot we went to was overwhelming and definitely not the gorgeous, relaxing retreat I was expecting. 'There were hundreds of people trying to see the sunset at once.' Meanwhile Claire, who had travelled more than 9,000 miles from Sydney, Australia described Oia as synonymous with 'animalistic mayhem', adding that that the relentless torrent of holidaymakers had left it 'crowded and jam packed'. Oia, famous for its whitewashed buildings with blue-domed churches, is frequented by up to 170,000 cruise ship passengers who disembark on the island every day. But shocking images of the small village shared last summer showed masses of tourists queuing on narrow walkways in a bid to get the best holiday shots. Due to the growing numbers of visitors, queues to reach the viewing spot in the clifftop village can often take more than 20 minutes. The island has now introduced new rules and measures to manage the influx of tourists, including a tourist tax, restrictions on access and parking, alongside a proposed 'saturation law' limiting daily visitor numbers. A limit of 8,000 cruise ship passengers per day has also been enforced. While Claire had hoped to 'explore the beaches and relax', she was left bitterly disappointed by 'jam packed streets that took ages to walk through', adding: 'It was also super hot with no shade anywhere. Gabriella Barrass visited the picturesque coastal island in early July, forking out £2,200 on a four-day trip. However, the Dubai resident said that any once-breathtaking views had now become tarnished by crowds of tourists battling ferociously for the perfect sunset spot 'That was probably the worst part. 'We walked the steps down to Ammoudi Bay, which were covered in donkey poo, so it smelled pretty bad. 'I had to squeeze up against a wall on the way back up, as there were donkeys on their way down. 'I was kind of worried they'd squash me.' Due to Ms Barras' negative experience, she remarked that 'I wouldn't go again', adding that there are 'much better' and 'less commercialised' islands on offer for tourists to enjoy. Meanwhile Claire added that any prospective holidaymakers should avoid staying in Oia, adding: 'Avoid July and August if you hate the crowds and peak summer heat.' On social media, viewers were quick to express their outrage at the ensuing crowds descending on Santorini, with one commenter saying: 'this gives me so much anxiety', while another remarked: 'This is why I travel right before the season hits'. Last summer, one aggravated tourist took to social media to say that Santorini, which had been a stop during their cruise trip, had been a bitter disappointment, remarking: 'Should never have got off (and won't next time). 'One Instagram spot, litter everywhere and absolutely rammed streets.' Meanwhile, another individual who said they work 'seasonally' in Santorini, said that there was 'no respect for the island or for us, from garbage, to times when the buses don't take us.' The growing numbers of tourists flocking to the volcanic island has continued to be a point of great contention for furious locals who have even threatened to leave the Greek island after officials told them to keep out of tourists' way. Last summer, local resident Onur Killic, 28, said that there are just 'too many tourists' coming to Santorini who leave rubbish behind and sometimes even a 'bad smell'. 'It's hard for locals because we live here. The roads are too crowded and the traffic is much worse; it's bad for environment and the cost of everything is out of control, locals cannot pay as prices have gone up,' the hotel worker told the i. 'They need to find the right balance, they could limit the amount of cruise ships, but the government is not doing enough – if this continues I will leave the island.' It came just days after Santorini councillor Panos Kavallaris urged residents in a since-deleted Facebook post to stay at home and avoid the influx of thousands of tourists per day. 'Another difficult day for our city and island is ahead with the arrival of 17,000 visitors from cruise ships. We ask for your attention: limit your movements as much as possible,' Kavallaris said, but the post quickly caused outrage among locals. Residents criticised the councillor's request, with one commenting on social media: '[He] officially asks locals to lock themselves at home, so that tourists can wander around free. Marvelous.' LIFO, a popular Greek newspaper, said that while Kavallaris' announcement was made 'with the best intentions', it was clear that the situation in Santorini in regards to the amount of tourists coming to the island was getting out of control. Of the record 32.7 million people who visited Greece in 2023, around 3.4 million, or one in 10, went to the small island of Santorini that has just 15,500 residents. The Greek isle has relied on tourism since the 1960s, before which it largely depended on agriculture to support its economy. But Santorini's mayor Nikos Zorzos stressed last year that there need to be 'limits' to the numbers of tourists descending on the island, warning that they could begin to 'sink under overtourism'. He added: 'There must not be a single extra bed... whether in the large hotels or Airbnb rentals.' Some locals in Oia have even resorted to putting signs up urging visitors to respect their home, with one sign from the Save Oia group reading: 'RESPECT... It's your holiday... but it's our home'. Shaped by a volcanic eruption 3,600 years ago, Santorini's landscape is 'unique', the mayor said, and 'should not be harmed by new infrastructure'. Around a fifth of the island is currently occupied by buildings, many of which are expensive luxury hotels featuring infinity swimming pools and jacuzzis. In 2023, 800 cruise ships brought some 1.3 million passengers, according to the Hellenic Ports Association. Cruisecritic, a Tripadvisor company, says that up to seven cruise ships can dock simultaneously on the island, which means that they could bring over 14,000 passengers if at full capacity. Cruise ships 'do a lot of harm to the island', said Chantal Metakides, a Belgian resident of Santorini for 26 years. 'When there are eight or nine ships pumping out smoke, you can see the layer of pollution in the caldera,' she said. In June last year, Prime Minister Kyriakos Mitsotakis voiced his desire for the capping of cruise ship arrivals to Greece's most popular islands. He told Bloomberg: 'There are people spending a lot of money to be on Santorini and they don't want the island to be swamped'. In an interview, Tourism Minister Olga Kefalogianni echoed this sentiment and said: 'We must set quotas because it's impossible for an island such as Santorini... to have five cruise ships arriving at the same time.' It comes as several of Europe's most popular cities have been captured becoming overrun this summer, with record-breaking tourist numbers turning some of Europe's most scenic streets into overcrowded, chaotic hotspots. In the Italian capital of Rome, tourists are crammed shoulder-to-shoulder as they try to take in the city's famous architecture, with one likening the experience to being 'part of one big sweaty herd.' Meanwhile, in Athens, known for its ancient ruins and historic streets, the crowds are so dense that visitors can barely squeeze past each other. And in Florence, the tourist crush has reached such extremes that some travellers are siding with protesters, with one saying the situation is 'out of hand'. One woman posted a video showing a huge queue of people waiting to see the Parthenon in Athens. The caption simply read: 'This was painful'. A tourist in Rome filmed a busy square and asked, 'why is it so crowded?' Viewers shared their thoughts in the comments section, with one person complaining that when they visited the city it was so busy they couldn't find a place to eat. Another said: 'I don't understand why people decide to visit Rome in the summer. That's insane.' In Florence, one tourist shared footage of a huge crowd and wrote across it, 'I don't blame the locals for wanting to protest against tourists'. The caption read: 'This has gotten out of hand ..as a fellow tourist right now.. I'm so sorry. I'm annoyed for y'all.'

Why do TikTok influencers like Molly Mae's sister have to ruin travel for the rest of us?
Why do TikTok influencers like Molly Mae's sister have to ruin travel for the rest of us?

The Independent

time3 days ago

  • The Independent

Why do TikTok influencers like Molly Mae's sister have to ruin travel for the rest of us?

Before any trip abroad, I turn to TikTok – not so much for inspiration as to gather tips on what not to do. As much as I've been 'influenced' into buying pastel cookware or acrid powders to reduce bloating (spoiler: they don't), the idea that anyone would base their holiday around what vloggers say is faintly abhorrent. And yet, it happens. Call me dramatic – a snob, even – but many influencers, especially those with particularly large followings, tend not to venture outside the confines of their 5-star resort unless it is for something with the crowd-pleasing aesthetic that you could find anywhere in the world. Case in point: the fitness influencer (and Molly-Mae Hague's sister), Zoe Rae, who this week bemoaned the famous Indonesian province, Bali, because it wasn't how it looked on social media. In a YouTube video about the trip, she described the high expectations she and her husband, Danny, had when they visited for their wedding anniversary. 'We had seen on social media that everyone was having such a lovely time. Lovely places to eat and beaches, and lovely gyms and coffee shops. 'But I don't think the reality of Bali is shown much at all, and I do think it is down to a lot of influencers posting the more luxury side of things.' Almost inevitably, the couple left Bali after 48 hours in favour of Dubai. Now, don't get me wrong. Had Rae cited safety concerns, an incident or even a lack of satisfaction with the resort she had (presumably) forked out for, that would be one thing – it was a special occasion, after all. But she didn't. She didn't even expand on what bothered her about the 'reality of Bali', beyond the purported lack of 'lovely cafes'. I don't know about you, but when I fly for 16+ hours, the thing I am most desperate to see is not a coffee shop. What's more, Rae is slating a destination to her hundreds of thousands of followers that not only is part of a developing country, where an estimated four per cent of its people live below the poverty line, but where tourism accounts for 60 to 70 per cent of its regional GDP. It's also pretty tone deaf in this climate, as many people cannot afford to go away, full stop, let alone jet off to another location on a whim two days later. To me, it confirms something I have long feared to be true: that critical thought is dead and, what's more, the art of travel is, too – all because of social media, where having content to share afterwards can seem to matter more than the trip itself. What happened to exploring? Whatever happened to doing research and using more than one source to figure out your plans? As an avid solo traveller, I tend to do a lot of research in advance – mainly because I want to ensure I am safe and I don't get caught out. Unlike travelling with friends or a partner, you only have yourself to rely on. I also have an irrational fear of dining somewhere mediocre or a tourist trap due to a lack of foresight. That said, I don't have a detailed itinerary with set times, and I only book a place if I genuinely would hate to miss it. I certainly don't visit places because of TikTok-induced queues or novelty dishes that will end up in the bin after a mouthful filmed for the 'gram. To go to any country and not experience an iota of its culture is pretty ghastly. I'm not saying recommendations are without their benefits – nor am I saying that giving them is reserved only for journalists, authors or the elite. Before TikTok, there was Instagram. And before Instagram, there were travel blogs, reviews and – stretching back a bit here – almanacs. In some ways, these platforms have made travel far more accessible and community-focused. However, and I believe this to largely be because influencers' experiences are often #gifted, many online recommendations now are not based on authenticity, quality or even value, but rather, aesthetics. It's all about 'the scene'. And even the genuinely good recommendations have been ruined by word of mouth and, therefore, overtourism. That isn't what travel is about. We shouldn't rely on being spoon-fed to figure things out, nor should we travel halfway across the world just to take a photo in some cafe. Can we please go back to independent thinking and, perhaps, even normalise 'gatekeeping'?

‘We're done': Queensland influencers' huge call about living in Australia
‘We're done': Queensland influencers' huge call about living in Australia

News.com.au

time3 days ago

  • Entertainment
  • News.com.au

‘We're done': Queensland influencers' huge call about living in Australia

A pair of Queensland influencers and their two children are leaving Australia 'for good' – a decision that an increased number of people have made in recent months, no longer able to hack our nation's soaring house prices and cost of living pressures. Brent and Molly Orwell, who rose to social media fame by documenting their two-and-a-half year trip around Australia in a caravan, shared the news with their followers this week. 'WE'RE LEAVING AUSTRALIA. FOR GOOD. (Not for a holiday. Not for a break. Not for a visa. We're done),' they wrote in a lengthy Facebook post. 'We've sat with this decision for months … years!! Wrestled with it. Played out every scenario. Listened to every doubt, every judgement, every 'what if'. But deep down, we know what's right for our family, our business, and our future. And it's not here … in this country. 'Australia will always be home. But it's no longer where we're meant to grow and raise our children. Because when you're: Taxed to the eyeballs no matter how much you make or 'write off', slammed by (the) rising cost of living no matter what state you live in, crushed by the weight of tall poppy syndrome if you dare dream bigger, seeing policies and laws change faster than you can adapt, watching our cities struggle to keep up with decisions we didn't vote for, watching systems shape your kids in ways you didn't choose … and watching opportunity for entrepreneurs get smaller, not greater … You realise you can either stay silent and conform … or do what's best and make a move. 'We chose to make a move … This isn't a flex. It's a call to anyone who's ever felt like they didn't belong in the system. We have given ourselves approx (sic) 8 weeks and we are out! 'We have so many emotions right now as we pack our first few boxes, but there is no point living a stagnant and truth be told – unhappy life where we are currently at in Australia.' The Orwells are yet to disclose where they will be moving to – instead, urging their followers to guess. But migration data has shown they aren't alone – with many other Australians seeking an alternative, and potentially cheaper, lifestyle. According to the latest Australian Bureau of Statistics (ABS) figures, migrant departures – people leaving Australia to move overseas – increased by 8 per cent to 221,000 from 204,000 between 2023-2024. Since the coronavirus pandemic, the only major demographic group to consistently leave the country is Australian-born citizens, with a further 57,100 leaving in 2023-2024 and just 35,590 coming home. The median age of those moving overseas was 31. Many who have left the country have taken to Reddit, where they blamed high property prices as the sole factor for their departure. 'I'm one of those Aussies who left. I moved to Japan. The job pays about the same as I'd make in Australia but the cost of living is way lower. Got a loan and bought a home only 20 minutes from two capital cities,' one Redditor said. A second one wrote: 'I moved overseas and won't return unless the housing prices go down or become accessible. I literally will never afford a house back in my home country until it does. I've purchased a 2 bedroom apartment overseas in a city with fine living conditions (although I miss the beaches) for a good price.' 'Wish I could return, but it's not worth it to live in poverty or without prospects of a future. Congrats, Boomers,' they added. 'Crazy' place Aussies aren't heading to The Orwells' move comes just months after fellow Queenslander Kat Clark – who has a combined TikTok and Instagram following of more than eight million – announced that she, her husband and youngest daughter would be relocating to the US. 'We have had some opportunities come up in America and we are going to give it a go,' Ms Clark explained, adding her family intends to stay in LA for the next two years. The 38-year-old's announcement came as a surprise to her fans, many of whom questioned why the popular influencer and businesswoman would ditch Australia for America, particularly given President Donald Trump's increasingly controversial – and concerning – government policies and strict border stance. 'Moving to America in this political climate is crazy,' one follower wrote, while another added, 'She thinks living in America will be like visiting America for a holiday. Can't wait for the 'we're moving back' video.' Addressing the backlash in a subsequent episode of her Basically Besties podcast, Ms Clark said the family's relocation had been in the works for at least a year, and had been prolonged by the process of securing a visa. 'I didn't want to tell people where we were moving until we got confirmation, but I also didn't want to tell people because I knew (they) would get mad at me – which happened,' she said. 'I understand where everyone is coming from. Living in Australia, we get a lot of negative media about the US – you see all the US shootings, you see crazy people that live in America – so, I get it. 'But a lot of people don't understand with our jobs and what we do, there isn't as much opportunity in Australia than there is in America – and that's one of the main reasons we are going there, for our work … If it's the biggest mistake I've ever made in my life, I am going to come back home.' Australian travel businesses have seen bookings to the US drop significantly as Australians, Canadians and Europeans choose to holiday elsewhere, amid experts' warnings and cases of tourists being denied entry on arrival (and, at times, strip searched and thrown in prison) spooking travellers. Earlier this year, US International Trade Administration statistics showed the number of visitors from Down Under had plummeted 7 per cent in the 12 months to March 2025 – the steepest decline since the same time four years ago, when the coronavirus pandemic was at its peak. Flight Centre CEO and founder Graham Turner told it was an 'unsettled climate' impacting business travel, while tourists worry about passport control or simply don't want to visit the States 'because they don't like what Donald Trump's doing'. The President's trade and entry policies were a 'significant' contributing factor to Flight Centre revising its 2025 financial year profit guidance from $365-$405 million to $300-$335 million. Mr Turner said it was also the one major factor that is 'outside (Flight Centre's) control'. Mr Turner said he hoped Australian and global travel to the US will start to recover between now and September 'depending on what Trump does'. 'It depends a lot on what actually happens to these tariffs … which obviously we can't predict,' he said.

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