ICAC zeroes in on Newcastle engineer's slippery slope to cash kickbacks
"Basically it was an indication that we should get in bed with the contractors, inflate the rates, and get cash benefits," Mr Liu said.
The conversation started with Mr Liu questioning Mr Helmy, a senior Transport for NSW figure, about the rates of various subcontractors.
Mr Liu felt that some of their regular contractors, such as Protection Barriers, were ripping them off and that their prices were too high.
Mr Helmy called it a COVID tax, inflation, because "things were getting expensive", Mr Liu said.
In later conversations, the tone became more serious and the specifics of the how-to were discussed.
During work-related phone calls, Mr Helmy made comments about having "a really safe way" to get cash kickbacks if they wanted to, Mr Liu said.
"He said to me can you inflate the rates and I was shocked because I thought how could you ... how could you do that with all the oversight," Mr Liu said.
"I didn't think it was feasible. He said 'I have my ways'."
It was as simple as changing the rate, for example if the rate was $100 a linear metre, he would change it to $120'. That was one of the ways, he said.
Another way was to add "extra services" such as traffic control, and a variety of things into the invoice, Mr Liu said.
He was shocked that a procurement officer could do that Mr Liu said, but he also went along with it, and is accused of receiving more than $100,000 in kickbacks.
Rob Ranken SC, Counsel Assisting the Independent Commission Against Corruption (ICAC) in its inquiry into Transport for NSW corruption, asked him why he didn't report it.
Mr Liu said he had done some soul searching about that, and part of the explanation was that he felt his career was going nowhere.
"I think at that time a senior project position came up and I didn't win it," Mr Liu said.
"It's fair to say I didn't do well in the interview. I felt, for whatever it's worth, no matter how good I am, this is it, this is my life forever. That's not an excuse though."
Mr Liu said in other conversations with Mr Helmy they discussed in greater depth how the rort would work.
"I asked, if you can inflate the rates, why do you need me," Mr Liu said.
If he added extra items he needed me to look the other way, he said.
Mr Helmy would supply a rate from the contractors on the panel, and then Mr Liu was to say how much money was left in the budget, and they could add that on to the bill and take it for themselves.
"Basically he just wanted to add stuff and I just had to sign it when the invoice was issued that those additional items that were provided actually weren't provided," Mr Liu said.
The alleged rigging and inflation of contracts by Transport for NSW procurement officer Mr Helmy, who is in hiding, between 2012 and 2024 has come under the microscope of the NSW Independent Commission Against Corruption (ICAC).
ICAC is investigating allegations Mr Helmy was involved in corrupt relationships with companies that were paid at least $343 million in contracts.
He is wanted by police and is believed to be in hiding after a failed attempt to leave Australia on a US passport in September.
He is the principal - but not only - official involved in the ICAC inquiry.
Investigations led to raids in September on the head office of Protection Barriers, one of the state's biggest roadworks companies, headed by Jason Chellew.
Mr Ranken said in his opening address that he expected the evidence to show that Mr Liu received between $100,000 and $150,000 from Mr Chellew as part of a hire truck arrangement.
"WE should get on the bandwagon" were the words Ibrahim Helmy allegedly used to first lure former Newcastle-based senior projects engineer David Liu into his web of corruption.
"Basically it was an indication that we should get in bed with the contractors, inflate the rates, and get cash benefits," Mr Liu said.
The conversation started with Mr Liu questioning Mr Helmy, a senior Transport for NSW figure, about the rates of various subcontractors.
Mr Liu felt that some of their regular contractors, such as Protection Barriers, were ripping them off and that their prices were too high.
Mr Helmy called it a COVID tax, inflation, because "things were getting expensive", Mr Liu said.
In later conversations, the tone became more serious and the specifics of the how-to were discussed.
During work-related phone calls, Mr Helmy made comments about having "a really safe way" to get cash kickbacks if they wanted to, Mr Liu said.
"He said to me can you inflate the rates and I was shocked because I thought how could you ... how could you do that with all the oversight," Mr Liu said.
"I didn't think it was feasible. He said 'I have my ways'."
It was as simple as changing the rate, for example if the rate was $100 a linear metre, he would change it to $120'. That was one of the ways, he said.
Another way was to add "extra services" such as traffic control, and a variety of things into the invoice, Mr Liu said.
He was shocked that a procurement officer could do that Mr Liu said, but he also went along with it, and is accused of receiving more than $100,000 in kickbacks.
Rob Ranken SC, Counsel Assisting the Independent Commission Against Corruption (ICAC) in its inquiry into Transport for NSW corruption, asked him why he didn't report it.
Mr Liu said he had done some soul searching about that, and part of the explanation was that he felt his career was going nowhere.
"I think at that time a senior project position came up and I didn't win it," Mr Liu said.
"It's fair to say I didn't do well in the interview. I felt, for whatever it's worth, no matter how good I am, this is it, this is my life forever. That's not an excuse though."
Mr Liu said in other conversations with Mr Helmy they discussed in greater depth how the rort would work.
"I asked, if you can inflate the rates, why do you need me," Mr Liu said.
If he added extra items he needed me to look the other way, he said.
Mr Helmy would supply a rate from the contractors on the panel, and then Mr Liu was to say how much money was left in the budget, and they could add that on to the bill and take it for themselves.
"Basically he just wanted to add stuff and I just had to sign it when the invoice was issued that those additional items that were provided actually weren't provided," Mr Liu said.
The alleged rigging and inflation of contracts by Transport for NSW procurement officer Mr Helmy, who is in hiding, between 2012 and 2024 has come under the microscope of the NSW Independent Commission Against Corruption (ICAC).
ICAC is investigating allegations Mr Helmy was involved in corrupt relationships with companies that were paid at least $343 million in contracts.
He is wanted by police and is believed to be in hiding after a failed attempt to leave Australia on a US passport in September.
He is the principal - but not only - official involved in the ICAC inquiry.
Investigations led to raids in September on the head office of Protection Barriers, one of the state's biggest roadworks companies, headed by Jason Chellew.
Mr Ranken said in his opening address that he expected the evidence to show that Mr Liu received between $100,000 and $150,000 from Mr Chellew as part of a hire truck arrangement.
"WE should get on the bandwagon" were the words Ibrahim Helmy allegedly used to first lure former Newcastle-based senior projects engineer David Liu into his web of corruption.
"Basically it was an indication that we should get in bed with the contractors, inflate the rates, and get cash benefits," Mr Liu said.
The conversation started with Mr Liu questioning Mr Helmy, a senior Transport for NSW figure, about the rates of various subcontractors.
Mr Liu felt that some of their regular contractors, such as Protection Barriers, were ripping them off and that their prices were too high.
Mr Helmy called it a COVID tax, inflation, because "things were getting expensive", Mr Liu said.
In later conversations, the tone became more serious and the specifics of the how-to were discussed.
During work-related phone calls, Mr Helmy made comments about having "a really safe way" to get cash kickbacks if they wanted to, Mr Liu said.
"He said to me can you inflate the rates and I was shocked because I thought how could you ... how could you do that with all the oversight," Mr Liu said.
"I didn't think it was feasible. He said 'I have my ways'."
It was as simple as changing the rate, for example if the rate was $100 a linear metre, he would change it to $120'. That was one of the ways, he said.
Another way was to add "extra services" such as traffic control, and a variety of things into the invoice, Mr Liu said.
He was shocked that a procurement officer could do that Mr Liu said, but he also went along with it, and is accused of receiving more than $100,000 in kickbacks.
Rob Ranken SC, Counsel Assisting the Independent Commission Against Corruption (ICAC) in its inquiry into Transport for NSW corruption, asked him why he didn't report it.
Mr Liu said he had done some soul searching about that, and part of the explanation was that he felt his career was going nowhere.
"I think at that time a senior project position came up and I didn't win it," Mr Liu said.
"It's fair to say I didn't do well in the interview. I felt, for whatever it's worth, no matter how good I am, this is it, this is my life forever. That's not an excuse though."
Mr Liu said in other conversations with Mr Helmy they discussed in greater depth how the rort would work.
"I asked, if you can inflate the rates, why do you need me," Mr Liu said.
If he added extra items he needed me to look the other way, he said.
Mr Helmy would supply a rate from the contractors on the panel, and then Mr Liu was to say how much money was left in the budget, and they could add that on to the bill and take it for themselves.
"Basically he just wanted to add stuff and I just had to sign it when the invoice was issued that those additional items that were provided actually weren't provided," Mr Liu said.
The alleged rigging and inflation of contracts by Transport for NSW procurement officer Mr Helmy, who is in hiding, between 2012 and 2024 has come under the microscope of the NSW Independent Commission Against Corruption (ICAC).
ICAC is investigating allegations Mr Helmy was involved in corrupt relationships with companies that were paid at least $343 million in contracts.
He is wanted by police and is believed to be in hiding after a failed attempt to leave Australia on a US passport in September.
He is the principal - but not only - official involved in the ICAC inquiry.
Investigations led to raids in September on the head office of Protection Barriers, one of the state's biggest roadworks companies, headed by Jason Chellew.
Mr Ranken said in his opening address that he expected the evidence to show that Mr Liu received between $100,000 and $150,000 from Mr Chellew as part of a hire truck arrangement.
"WE should get on the bandwagon" were the words Ibrahim Helmy allegedly used to first lure former Newcastle-based senior projects engineer David Liu into his web of corruption.
"Basically it was an indication that we should get in bed with the contractors, inflate the rates, and get cash benefits," Mr Liu said.
The conversation started with Mr Liu questioning Mr Helmy, a senior Transport for NSW figure, about the rates of various subcontractors.
Mr Liu felt that some of their regular contractors, such as Protection Barriers, were ripping them off and that their prices were too high.
Mr Helmy called it a COVID tax, inflation, because "things were getting expensive", Mr Liu said.
In later conversations, the tone became more serious and the specifics of the how-to were discussed.
During work-related phone calls, Mr Helmy made comments about having "a really safe way" to get cash kickbacks if they wanted to, Mr Liu said.
"He said to me can you inflate the rates and I was shocked because I thought how could you ... how could you do that with all the oversight," Mr Liu said.
"I didn't think it was feasible. He said 'I have my ways'."
It was as simple as changing the rate, for example if the rate was $100 a linear metre, he would change it to $120'. That was one of the ways, he said.
Another way was to add "extra services" such as traffic control, and a variety of things into the invoice, Mr Liu said.
He was shocked that a procurement officer could do that Mr Liu said, but he also went along with it, and is accused of receiving more than $100,000 in kickbacks.
Rob Ranken SC, Counsel Assisting the Independent Commission Against Corruption (ICAC) in its inquiry into Transport for NSW corruption, asked him why he didn't report it.
Mr Liu said he had done some soul searching about that, and part of the explanation was that he felt his career was going nowhere.
"I think at that time a senior project position came up and I didn't win it," Mr Liu said.
"It's fair to say I didn't do well in the interview. I felt, for whatever it's worth, no matter how good I am, this is it, this is my life forever. That's not an excuse though."
Mr Liu said in other conversations with Mr Helmy they discussed in greater depth how the rort would work.
"I asked, if you can inflate the rates, why do you need me," Mr Liu said.
If he added extra items he needed me to look the other way, he said.
Mr Helmy would supply a rate from the contractors on the panel, and then Mr Liu was to say how much money was left in the budget, and they could add that on to the bill and take it for themselves.
"Basically he just wanted to add stuff and I just had to sign it when the invoice was issued that those additional items that were provided actually weren't provided," Mr Liu said.
The alleged rigging and inflation of contracts by Transport for NSW procurement officer Mr Helmy, who is in hiding, between 2012 and 2024 has come under the microscope of the NSW Independent Commission Against Corruption (ICAC).
ICAC is investigating allegations Mr Helmy was involved in corrupt relationships with companies that were paid at least $343 million in contracts.
He is wanted by police and is believed to be in hiding after a failed attempt to leave Australia on a US passport in September.
He is the principal - but not only - official involved in the ICAC inquiry.
Investigations led to raids in September on the head office of Protection Barriers, one of the state's biggest roadworks companies, headed by Jason Chellew.
Mr Ranken said in his opening address that he expected the evidence to show that Mr Liu received between $100,000 and $150,000 from Mr Chellew as part of a hire truck arrangement.
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The prosecution of a 13-year-old Chinese girl for the stabbing murder of a fellow exchange student at Lake Macquarie will present extraordinary challenges for the state's justice system. The prosecution of a child, who is also a foreign national, for murder is believed to be unprecedented in Australian legal circles. "There are certainly examples of children being prosecuted for murder, but I have never heard of a Chinese girl in a situation like this. It's quite extraordinary," Professor John Anderson from the University of Newcastle's School of Law and Justice said. Australia's youngest killer, known as SLD, was convicted of killing three-year-old Courtney Morley-Clarke on the Central Coast in 2001 when he was just 13. He was released from prison in March this year after serving 22 years in custody. For children over the age of 10 and under the age of 14, the common law presumption of doli incapax (incapable of wrong) applies to criminal offences - that is, children do not possess the necessary criminal intent to be held responsible for their actions. This means the law presumes they cannot distinguish between right and wrong in a way that would make them legally culpable for a crime. This can be rebutted by the prosecution if it can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the child understood their actions were seriously wrong. "If you look at the James Bulger case in England, those boys were 10 and 11 when they were prosecuted. There was a doli incapax argument raised in that case, but it was overcome," Professor Anderson said. "Prosecuting a 13-year-old does raise lots of other issues in the criminal system in terms of establishing criminal responsibility, but it's not impossible. Certainly, a 13-year-old can be criminally responsible. In addition to her age and nationality, the girl's fitness will be a further complication for prosecutors. Magistrate Andrew Eckhold noted that the girl, who can not be named, appeared to be"severely unwell" and was taking "an extraordinary number of medications" when the case was mentioned in Broadmeadow Children's Court on Wednesday. "Depending on what the mental health issues are, and if there is any psychiatric evidence, it then becomes a question of whether they (the defence) can raise the mental health defenses to murder, of which there are two - the mental illness defense or the defense of substantial impairment by mental abnormality, which is only available to murder, and would reduce murder to manslaughter if it was successful," Professor Anderson said. Ultimately, the case will be determined in the NSW Supreme Court. Newcastle-based lawyer Drew Hamilton said he believed that, given the recent push by NSW Chief Justice Andrew Bell to bring justice to the regions, there was a fair chance a future trial would be held in Newcastle. Specialist resources will also have to be provided to ensure the girl is appropriately represented. "As a Chinese foreign national and young person, she would be considered extremely vulnerable," Mr Hamilton said. "She would need additional assistance from an experienced legal team, qualified interpreters, juvenile justice officers and allied health professionals. If found guilty, further questions would arise as to whether the girl would serve her sentence in Australia or whether she could be transferred to China. "Australia does have prisoner exchange programs with certain countries, but I think it would go over to the Foreign Minister. That would bring in very different types of negotiations," Professor Anderson said. The prosecution of a 13-year-old Chinese girl for the stabbing murder of a fellow exchange student at Lake Macquarie will present extraordinary challenges for the state's justice system. The prosecution of a child, who is also a foreign national, for murder is believed to be unprecedented in Australian legal circles. "There are certainly examples of children being prosecuted for murder, but I have never heard of a Chinese girl in a situation like this. It's quite extraordinary," Professor John Anderson from the University of Newcastle's School of Law and Justice said. Australia's youngest killer, known as SLD, was convicted of killing three-year-old Courtney Morley-Clarke on the Central Coast in 2001 when he was just 13. He was released from prison in March this year after serving 22 years in custody. For children over the age of 10 and under the age of 14, the common law presumption of doli incapax (incapable of wrong) applies to criminal offences - that is, children do not possess the necessary criminal intent to be held responsible for their actions. This means the law presumes they cannot distinguish between right and wrong in a way that would make them legally culpable for a crime. This can be rebutted by the prosecution if it can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the child understood their actions were seriously wrong. "If you look at the James Bulger case in England, those boys were 10 and 11 when they were prosecuted. There was a doli incapax argument raised in that case, but it was overcome," Professor Anderson said. "Prosecuting a 13-year-old does raise lots of other issues in the criminal system in terms of establishing criminal responsibility, but it's not impossible. Certainly, a 13-year-old can be criminally responsible. In addition to her age and nationality, the girl's fitness will be a further complication for prosecutors. Magistrate Andrew Eckhold noted that the girl, who can not be named, appeared to be"severely unwell" and was taking "an extraordinary number of medications" when the case was mentioned in Broadmeadow Children's Court on Wednesday. "Depending on what the mental health issues are, and if there is any psychiatric evidence, it then becomes a question of whether they (the defence) can raise the mental health defenses to murder, of which there are two - the mental illness defense or the defense of substantial impairment by mental abnormality, which is only available to murder, and would reduce murder to manslaughter if it was successful," Professor Anderson said. Ultimately, the case will be determined in the NSW Supreme Court. Newcastle-based lawyer Drew Hamilton said he believed that, given the recent push by NSW Chief Justice Andrew Bell to bring justice to the regions, there was a fair chance a future trial would be held in Newcastle. Specialist resources will also have to be provided to ensure the girl is appropriately represented. "As a Chinese foreign national and young person, she would be considered extremely vulnerable," Mr Hamilton said. "She would need additional assistance from an experienced legal team, qualified interpreters, juvenile justice officers and allied health professionals. If found guilty, further questions would arise as to whether the girl would serve her sentence in Australia or whether she could be transferred to China. "Australia does have prisoner exchange programs with certain countries, but I think it would go over to the Foreign Minister. That would bring in very different types of negotiations," Professor Anderson said. The prosecution of a 13-year-old Chinese girl for the stabbing murder of a fellow exchange student at Lake Macquarie will present extraordinary challenges for the state's justice system. The prosecution of a child, who is also a foreign national, for murder is believed to be unprecedented in Australian legal circles. "There are certainly examples of children being prosecuted for murder, but I have never heard of a Chinese girl in a situation like this. It's quite extraordinary," Professor John Anderson from the University of Newcastle's School of Law and Justice said. Australia's youngest killer, known as SLD, was convicted of killing three-year-old Courtney Morley-Clarke on the Central Coast in 2001 when he was just 13. He was released from prison in March this year after serving 22 years in custody. For children over the age of 10 and under the age of 14, the common law presumption of doli incapax (incapable of wrong) applies to criminal offences - that is, children do not possess the necessary criminal intent to be held responsible for their actions. This means the law presumes they cannot distinguish between right and wrong in a way that would make them legally culpable for a crime. This can be rebutted by the prosecution if it can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the child understood their actions were seriously wrong. "If you look at the James Bulger case in England, those boys were 10 and 11 when they were prosecuted. There was a doli incapax argument raised in that case, but it was overcome," Professor Anderson said. "Prosecuting a 13-year-old does raise lots of other issues in the criminal system in terms of establishing criminal responsibility, but it's not impossible. Certainly, a 13-year-old can be criminally responsible. In addition to her age and nationality, the girl's fitness will be a further complication for prosecutors. Magistrate Andrew Eckhold noted that the girl, who can not be named, appeared to be"severely unwell" and was taking "an extraordinary number of medications" when the case was mentioned in Broadmeadow Children's Court on Wednesday. "Depending on what the mental health issues are, and if there is any psychiatric evidence, it then becomes a question of whether they (the defence) can raise the mental health defenses to murder, of which there are two - the mental illness defense or the defense of substantial impairment by mental abnormality, which is only available to murder, and would reduce murder to manslaughter if it was successful," Professor Anderson said. Ultimately, the case will be determined in the NSW Supreme Court. Newcastle-based lawyer Drew Hamilton said he believed that, given the recent push by NSW Chief Justice Andrew Bell to bring justice to the regions, there was a fair chance a future trial would be held in Newcastle. Specialist resources will also have to be provided to ensure the girl is appropriately represented. "As a Chinese foreign national and young person, she would be considered extremely vulnerable," Mr Hamilton said. "She would need additional assistance from an experienced legal team, qualified interpreters, juvenile justice officers and allied health professionals. If found guilty, further questions would arise as to whether the girl would serve her sentence in Australia or whether she could be transferred to China. "Australia does have prisoner exchange programs with certain countries, but I think it would go over to the Foreign Minister. That would bring in very different types of negotiations," Professor Anderson said.
