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How Oasis said they'd never split up in classic Sun interview… and why iconic rock singer refused to speak to Liam

How Oasis said they'd never split up in classic Sun interview… and why iconic rock singer refused to speak to Liam

The Sun4 hours ago

'I DIDN'T join Oasis to split up,' said Liam Gallagher.
'I joined the band because I like being in a band and I like to make music.
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'If the tunes are f***ing good and we all look half-decent, then people will want to buy the records.
"I still love everything about it.'
These were the forthright frontman's words when he spoke to me for a 2006 SFTW Oasis special where readers got to quiz the boys.
His love for the band was unmistakable, and every time I've interviewed him since that same passion for keeping the group alive has come through loud and clear.
'This is what I like doing and it never gets boring,' he said back then.
'So, who knows, man?
"All those bands that split up after a couple of records, well, they can suck my d**k!
'I love singing our kid's songs and I love doing the gigs. I like the way our band's perceived and we've got the best fans in the world.
"So why would you not like it?'
Now, with just two weeks to go until the band's reunion — with the Oasis Live '25 Tour opening at Principality Stadium in Cardiff on July 4 — SFTW returns to look at our exclusive interviews with the Gallagher brothers.
'As bad as things get in Oasis, there's always this sibling thing that draws us back together — or my mam gets involved,' Noel added in the same 2006 interview, three years before that fateful brawl in Paris in 2009 that led to the band's split.
Asked by a reader how close they had ever come to breaking up, Liam stated: 'Never.
"We just needed a couple of days off instead of going into another country.
"I don't think it's ever come close really.
'We've had some serious arguments but as you get older you think, nah, f***. Ask Noel.'
While Liam downplayed any threat of a split, Noel recalled things differently: 'The real low point was Barcelona for the Standing On The Shoulder Of Giants tour.
"In that period, we were all drinking a lot and taking drugs.
'With Oasis we started off right at the very top at a place that took U2 a decade to get to. So, it was bound to drop.
'We were party people. We weren't the most professional and we didn't give a f***.
'And Liam sees things very differently from the rest of us.
"He needs to go to anger management classes and get some manners.'
'GET SOME MANNERS'
Always a brilliant storyteller, Noel's interviews never failed to entertain.
'I remember when we shot our first Rolling Stone cover in America and the photographer was an ahole,' he said.
'After 40 minutes Liam and I said, 'We are done now, see ya'. And he said solemnly, 'I have you for eight more hours'.
'There was no way we were staying for eight hours. We were off to buy drugs.
'It was f***ing brilliant but I've also had a couple of nights out with John Lydon.
'He and Liam are similar and those two do not get on at all.
'So, I'm in LA and I've got John on one side and Liam on the other.
"John wouldn't refer to Liam in person either.
"He'd say, 'Ask your singer if he wears make-up?'.
'And I'd turn to Liam and go, 'Liam, do you wear make-up?'. He'd then go, 'F*** off, you prick'.
'And so I'd turn back to John and say, 'He told you to f*** off'.
"To which John would say, 'Go on northerner, ask your singer, is he a f***ing hard man?'.
It's a top day out at an Oasis gig, whether you're on the stage or in the crowd, so why would you want to cut that stuff short?
Liam Gallagher
'I'm like, 'Liam are you a hard man?'.
"And it would carry on back and forth. It was probably one of the best nights out I've ever had!'.
Another time, at Noel's Lone Star studio — an Aladdin's cave of football and music memorabilia, including an old neon pink Top Of The Pops sign — the songwriter said: 'You would have never earmarked a load of fing guys from a council estate.
"One of them bald, and two f***ing brothers always arguing. You'd never say they were going to change the world.
'And that's what I mean. You can't focus group that — it just explodes out of nowhere.'
Solo careers had always been on the cards for the Gallaghers.
In the quiz special, one reader asked: 'Is it true Noel wants to make a solo album but never seems to have time? Would Liam let him?'
Noel replied: 'I'll do one eventually, as life's too short and none of us is getting any younger.
"I'd like to make one while I still look good and before I look like Phil Collins, which, eventually, I will. It's nothing to do with Liam.'
Meanwhile, Liam answered: 'I've got the songs, I could do four solo albums.'
'QUALITY CONTROL'
He was right about that.
By 2024, Liam had released four records, all chart toppers, including his collaboration with Stone Roses guitarist John Squire.
And his solo career saw him establish himself as one of Britain's last true rock'n'roll frontmen.
But the singer has always insisted that his focus was on entertaining and playing live.
He told me: 'People like the f***ing s**t that comes out of my mouth.
"And I've not changed much, have I?
'I'm the same person as I was when I was 20.
"I dress the same, my haircut is pretty much the same.
"I'm still pretty cool.
"And I enjoy being on the stage more because that is where it is at.
'Sitting in the studio all day is great but I've got to see people's reactions.
"It's a top day out at an Oasis gig, whether you're on the stage or in the crowd, so why would you want to cut that stuff short?'
Noel, meanwhile, saw things differently, focusing more on control and clarity.
When I interviewed him for his second High Flying Birds solo album, Chasing Yesterday, in 2015, he said: 'Everyone told me they couldn't improve what I'd already done.
"There is more quality control with what I do now I'm solo.
'I want to enjoy this because it's a moment in my life that I will never get back.
Now I'm older and not f***ing high all the time, I've made a conscious decision to enjoy and remember it
Noel Gallagher
"With Definitely Maybe, I didn't know what the f*** was going on.
'Now I'm older and not f***ing high all the time, I've made a conscious decision to enjoy and remember it.
"But it's different now.
'I work better when I am in charge. I think my records prove that.
'I wasted a lot of time with Oasis splitting up, so I just want to put my voice on as many records as I can before I die.'
Still, moving on was something Liam also proved he could handle and success was never taken for granted.
In a 2022 chat for third album C'Mon You Know, he told me: 'I'm definitely still pinching myself.
"I thought I'd gone down the s**tter man.'
Humbler than in his Oasis days, Liam was also strikingly down to earth.
I'll never forget how welcoming he was backstage at Alexandra Palace after the premiere of his film, As It Was, in 2019.
And how he joked about football with my then-teenage son at an after-party following his Union Chapel gig for Shelter in 2018.
More mellow, yes.
But in our 2017 chat, Liam wanted to make it clear to his critics that he had not grown up.
'F*** growing up, mate, I'm growing down.'
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Liam has always said it like it is and his Twitter humour showed there was no one quite like him.
He said: 'I f***ing love Twitter. I f***ing love it. I know people go, 'Oh, you need to grow up'.
'Well, you go and put your f***ing pipe on with your slippers and your hot cocoa and get to bed.
'I am going the other way. F that growing-up business.'
Yet away from the chaos and comedy, it is his children that Liam credits for calming him down as he got older.
On the eve of his 2022 solo gigs at Knebworth, he said: 'When you're young you've got a bag of chips on your shoulder.
"As you get older you cool it down a bit.
'My kids are great.
" Gene pops around a lot and Lennon is out doing his band stuff (he fronts the band Automation).
"Molly was living with us for a bit and now she's moved in with her fella.
'NOSTALGIA TRIP'
'Gene and Lennon are both talented musicians. They love music and they're into it.'
The demand for Oasis's long-awaited reunion — and the fact that the shows won't be televised — makes it a once-in-a-lifetime experience for many.
And it's far from just a nostalgia trip.
In our pre-Knebworth chat, Liam spoke about the new generation of fans who had got into Oasis through his solo work.
He added: 'I've been lucky and there's people who were there the first time for Oasis.
'People who are my age and have kids now who they've brought up on the music and want to hear the tunes.
'I could have Sylvester Stallone on stage and Esther Rantzen playing bass and it wouldn't matter.
"It's about ME and the fans.
"The reason I'm doing Knebworth again is because of the fans. That's what the people want and I'm respecting them.
'I'm absolutely buzzing for Knebworth, it's going to be Biblical.
"Hopefully we can deliver a good gig and have a good weekend.'
But selecting a setlist for the forthcoming shows might see the brothers back to arguing over which songs to play — just as they did when they clashed over the track listing Noel chose for Oasis's 2006 greatest hits album Stop The Clocks.
Back then, Liam said: 'I think he's missed a few. I'd have put on Rockin' Chair, D'You Know What I Mean?.
'I would have put some stuff off Be Here Now.
'If he didn't like the record that much, he shouldn't have put the fing record out in the first place.
'I don't know what's up with him but it's a top record, man, and I'm proud of it — it's just a little bit long.'
Noel retorted: 'D'You Know What I Mean?' was on it right up to the day before it was mastered.
'But it's just too long. It upset the flow of the album.
'When we recorded Be Here Now I thought it was the greatest thing ever, but the novelty of that record wore off pretty soon.
'It was a great period. The money had just come in from Morning Glory, so we had become very, very wealthy overnight.
"Sony had given us a private jet, I was given a Rolls-Royce — but unfortunately, the music suffered.
'I don't know why Liam is saying that, because when it comes to playing them live, he won't sing them!'
And then there was Acquiesce — a song that was a mystery to Liam.
He said: 'The title did confuse me. It still confuses me — I haven't got a clue what it means.
"I've never asked Noel what it means either.
"The less I have to talk to him, the better.'
Noel, typically unfiltered, replied: 'Liam still doesn't know what it means.
"People have this misconception that the song is about me and Liam, which annoys me to f***.
'The lyrics in the second verse are, 'To sing my soul to sleep, and take me back to bed'. It's absolutely not about me and our kid.
'We've never shared a bed — and if I was looking for someone to take me to bed, it wouldn't be Liam!'
It's the kind of blunt humour fans have come to expect from Noel — and it doesn't stop there.
Asked what's not allowed on his tour rider these days?
'Nothing. Thunderbirds are go when I am on tour.'
He pauses for a second.
'Hang on. Actually, there is one thing I've banned.'
'What?' I ask.
'Liam,' he grinned before breaking into another laugh.
Some things never change. And for Oasis fans, that's exactly the point.

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Gabby Logan is posing in a pair of form-hugging PVC trousers and killer heels, with her shoulders adorned in fur. And as her last photo is taken she delivers a diva punchline to bring the house down: 'Well, that's my Match of the Day outfit sorted then.' If only. Logan takes the helm of the BBC's TV institution in August (along with Kelly Cates and Mark Chapman) following the recent departure of Gary Lineker. I dare you to wear that outfit, I say. 'The BBC don't say anything much about clothes, but they might say something about an outfit like that. So I don't think I'm going to rattle the cage,' she muses as we sit down to talk. MOTD is the longest-running football show in the world. To paraphrase Labour campaign watchers, she is about to walk across a highly polished floor holding a Ming vase. Is she nervous? 'Before any broadcast, I get just nervous enough to give a good performance. Before I had children I was quite superstitious. 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Logan is about to front an unprecedented summer of women's sport coverage on the BBC. Women's football (the Euros begin in July), rugby (the World Cup is in August), not to mention cricket, tennis, athletics (the World Championships are in September) and netball. 'No sidelines, no second billing,' says the official Beeb announcement. There will be a grassroots campaign to get more girls and women participating too. 'Names will be made,' they predict. 'Think back to the women's Euros in 2022,' Logan enthuses. 'Lots of people didn't know who Alessia Russo, Chloe Kelly, Ella Toone or Ellen White were and it was such a joy to see them emerge as household names. Heroes, basically. And there are so many more to come.' Who might be the new stars? Look out for Aggie Beever-Jones (the England international and Chelsea star who recently scored a hat-trick against Portugal in the women's Nations League) and Ellie Kildunne (the England rugby union star and 2024 World Rugby's women's player of the year). 'A lot of these women are already very well known within sporting circles, but they really deserve wider recognition. And that means both women and men watching. With football particularly, I think sometimes the narrative can be: 'No men's Euros or World Cup this summer — it's going to be a quiet one.' It's really not. Across all these sports, there is amazing female talent waiting to be discovered.' Logan is of course a former international athlete herself — she was a gymnast for Wales at the 1990 Commonwealth Games but retired due to injury aged 17. Her father is the former Leeds United and Wales international footballer Terry Yorath and, as a young girl, she loved that game too. 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There's a lot of debate about players taking the money to play in Saudi Arabia but you can't walk in their shoes. You don't know if they're giving that money to the town they came from or building schools. So many players do that but it doesn't get the coverage because it's not exciting. And in terms of entertainment, would you apply that to the music industry and say Elton John isn't worth that money? Or that movie star isn't worth it for a film?' 'I want as many people to participate in sport in a safe and fair way' OK, women's sport can feel refreshingly wholesome — except perhaps in one area. It's been two months since the Supreme Court ruled that under equalities law, a woman is defined by biological sex, not gender identity. What is Logan's view on the ruling and what effect will it have on women's sport this summer? 'I'm not going to talk about that,' she says firmly. I am surprised. 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We are sitting in a quiet corner of a photo studio. These exchanges feel like a half-hearted game of ping-pong in a very rundown youth centre. I get it. Logan is here representing the BBC and broadcasters are incredibly nervous about the gender debate. Days after we speak, the tennis legend and TV pundit Martina Navratilova is censored on ITV's X channel after posting comments about the controversial Algerian boxer Imane Khelif. But it's a shame because on social media and in her 2022 memoir, The First Half, Logan is often both funny and bolshy. On X she has variously questioned Brexit, trolled Melania Trump's fashion choices, denounced Donald Trump and come out in support of Marcus Rashford's campaign for free school meals during the Covid pandemic. 'I found the people opposing Marcus Rashford totally baffling,' she says, rallying. 'This is a kid who knows what it's like [Rashford was brought up by a single mother] trying to use his position in a positive way. I grew up when football players were constantly being bashed for their lavish lifestyles, so the 'stick to football' attitude was very disappointing.' 'After my brother died, I promised him to live my life for two people' The 'wild west' of social media is where you find no-nonsense Logan. In fact, swagger into Gabby's Bar with a bad attitude and you are probably leaving through the window. In her memoir she calls the BBC broadcasting legend Des Lynam 'the master', but is more than ready to put him straight now. Last year Lynam said he had 'no gripe' with female presenters but that, 'When you're a pundit and you're offering opinions about the game, you have to have played it at the level you are talking about — ie, the men's game.' 'It's really strange for Des Lynam to be coming at it from that angle when he's never played the game at that level, has he?' she says. Elsewhere the billionaire former Spurs chairman Lord Sugar expressed concern that, while women pundits often comment on the men's game, there were no men covering the women's 2022 Euros tournament. 'Given the viewing figures for the women's Euros and the excitement around the whole tournament, I think perhaps Sir Alan misjudged that one,' she says. That's Logan all over. She is diligent and head-girlish, but then she's had to be. Her early life was happy, exciting even. With her mum, Christine, and siblings — sister Louise and brothers Daniel and Jordan — she moved around while her dad played in Leeds, London, even Canada. But the day 15-year-old Daniel died suddenly while playing football in the back garden (he had an undiagnosed heart condition, hypertrophic cardiomyopathy), things changed overnight. Daniel and his father were very close and, heartbroken, Terry Yorath's life spun out of control; he became depressed and drank to excess. The marriage eventually fell apart. Meanwhile, 19-year-old Logan pulled herself together. In the funeral parlour, seeing her brother for the last time, she made him a promise: 'I am going to do everything I can to make your life count.' 'Yes, to live my life for two people,' she says today. The tragedy and her sporting instincts drove her to achieve and yet Logan has learnt that competitive women ruffle feathers. The moment of truth, she says, came while appearing with her husband, the former Scotland rugby international Kenny Logan, on Strictly Come Dancing in 2007. While Kenny was lauded as the game bruiser twirling through the pasa doble in a kilt, she was seen as trying too hard. Kenny came 5th, Gabby Logan was eliminated early in 11th place. It really hurt her. In The First Half she says the day she left she cried, 'People really don't like me,' into her sofa. Why did it hurt so much? 'Because I was kicked out! And it was a harsh lesson, learning that sometimes not everyone likes you. You realise the parts of your personality that you thought were attributes as a sportswoman are not valued. I was told I was being too competitive, whereas I was thinking, 'I thought that was good. That's what I did in sport — and it worked — and that's what my husband is doing.' I actually reckon there was a societal shift between that show in 2007 and 2012. At the 2012 Olympics we started to appreciate tough, competitive women. We made heroes of them. But in 2007 I wasn't playing the game expected of a woman.' What would a woman 'playing the game' look like? 'Oh, it would have served me to say,' — she bats her eyelids and smiles — ' 'Oh gosh, whatever, that's fine! I'm just happy to be here!' rather than trying hard. But you have to decide if that's you, and that's something I'm not compromising on.' There was another significant fallout from Daniel's death: the disrupted relationship with her father led her into an unhealthy pattern when choosing men. 'For a few years I sought the company of not very appropriate, older men,' she writes in her book. Most notable was Gary Staines, a long-distance runner who took a shine to her at the 1990 Commonwealth Games in Auckland, New Zealand. She was 16. Staines was 26 and engaged. A year later his marriage ended and Logan moved into his London flat. Logan ended the relationship once she was at Durham University, where she read law. But by her early twenties, despite having cut her teeth on local radio and making a name for herself as a presenter at Sky Sports, Logan was feeling lost. With her husband and Prince Charles at a reception for the Prince's Trust, 2013 PA 'I didn't like myself very much,' she says. 'I was probably wanting to mend something because our family was quite broken, because of my brother dying. I felt I could create something like a family, a happy place. Those were the relationships I was pursuing. But a bit of guidance from a therapist helped me recognise those patterns were not healthy. That was a good time for it to happen, because in my early twenties I realised I wasn't enjoying relationships I was in. It didn't seem like a good way to be.' 'Thank God I am married to a normal bloke' Early in 1999 Logan was on her way home from dinner with a girlfriend who suggested a late drink in a bar. Logan didn't want to go; she was still queasy from an uncomfortable New Year's Eve dalliance: 'a cigar-smoking wide boy' she'd snogged and who wanted her to do cocaine in the lavatories at a London cabaret (she didn't). Nevertheless, she and the friend slipped into London's K Bar and she was introduced to Kenny Logan. Early portents weren't great. He was drunk and thought he was talking to the former Big Breakfast presenter Gaby Roslin. Nevertheless they hit it off. 'Thank God I am married to a normal bloke who isn't an addict,' she says in her book, and is very funny about Kenny bouncing her off the water bed in her London townhouse during their early years together. 'He's still my number one,' she says. In recent years her marriage to Kenny has become something of a minor sporting spectacle in itself. Logan has been disarmingly honest about how the menopause affected her sex drive ('Is this going to become a duty?') until she took HRT. And it was a 2021 edition of podcast The that prompted Kenny to get himself checked out for prostate cancer; he tested positive. He has made a full recovery but both have been refreshingly open about the impact of the disease on their relationship: Kenny talked us through his testicles growing to 'the size of tennis balls' and the month it took post-surgery to get any erectile 'movement'. 'We decided: we have a platform — let's use it for good,' Logan says. 'We get a lot of great feedback from people who say they took action [about their health]. I'm sure our kids have been teased about it more than we know, but they also feel grateful that their dad's life was, if not saved, at least spared from something more serious.' As a teenager herself she says she was too tall and flat-chested to be fancied by boys. She didn't drink and was dedicated to her sport. No wonder, as a 16-year-old at the Commonwealth Games, she was baffled as to why male competitors wanted to hang out with her and her sister Louise — who went on to become a model — or why the Sultan of Brunei's brother, Prince Jefri, sent her a Brunei team tracksuit as a gift along with his phone number. 'I just thought, 'Oh, nice tracksuit,' ' Logan recalls now. 'I only really read about him afterwards.' Prince Jefri reportedly owned more than 2,000 cars and enjoyed entertaining on a superyacht called Tits. Why did it take her so long to realise that, in her own words, many sports people at major tournaments are 'on heat'? 'I was very young, but when you step back it's obvious, isn't it? All these very fit, healthy people who train so hard — and, if my experience is anything to go by, miss out on so many social events because they are trying to get their gymnastics right — are suddenly ready to mingle. You're done training and there are lots of other fit, lovely people around who also want to let off a bit of steam. It's no great surprise that there are romantic liaisons. I believe the French handed out more condoms than ever at the Paris Olympics. It's the swimmers you have to watch out for — their events always finish first. And if you get up at 5am to train for your whole life and you are superfit and you finish your competition, you deserve to party, right? Just don't live next to the swimmers in the village if you want a good night's sleep.' Back then a young athlete could make mistakes — she is clear the relationship with Gary Staines 'should never have happened' — but we now live in a world of social media. As a leading broadcaster, the scrutiny and abuse are intense. Logan has been told to 'get back in the kitchen' on X; and in the last year alone she has been taken to task for wishing viewers a 'happy festive season' instead of saying 'Christmas' and for using the term 'cock-up' while commentating on last year's Olympics. 'You have to decide how much it's going to invade your sanity,' she says. 'The people that matter to me, I will always listen to their opinion. I am just glad I stopped my kids having phones till they were 16 so they could at least have a taste of what I had: the chance to be in the moment, even to make mistakes.' Dress, Shoes, Earrings, ROBERT WILSON FOR THE TIMES MAGAZINE Lois is at university and Reuben a rugby player for Northampton Saints (he joins Sale Sharks next season). They are relaxed about their mum's achievements, although there was a flurry of texts when she got the MOTD job. 'It's an institution, so of course it was huge for them too,' she says, smiling. But first, this summer of women's sport will be the fruition of years of determined, unrecognised effort. There are parallels with Logan's TV career. Aged 11, she watched a VHS tape of the 1984 Olympics over and over again, noting even then that only men seemed to be presenters. In her twenties, at Sky TV, her boss told her that her career would be over when she was 28, and in her early thirties she very nearly gave up after being sidelined at ITV. She took a 66 per cent pay cut to join the BBC. She had just had children when ITV let her go. Wasn't she suspicious? 'No. That's TV. I had a real crisis of confidence. I wondered, 'Am I any good at this job?' But the truth is, sometimes people just aren't into you.' No wonder her X profile simply says, 'Still here.' 'I owe my opportunities to some quite strident women in TV before me who said, 'It's not right that we get chucked off air just because we hit 40,' ' she asserts. 'Women like Kirsty Wark, presenting Newsnight into her sixties. Like the sportswomen we will hopefully celebrate this summer, I feel I am very much standing on the shoulders of giants.'

‘You'd never make Slumdog today': Danny Boyle on risks, regrets and returning to the undead
‘You'd never make Slumdog today': Danny Boyle on risks, regrets and returning to the undead

The Guardian

timean hour ago

  • The Guardian

‘You'd never make Slumdog today': Danny Boyle on risks, regrets and returning to the undead

The UK is a wasteland in Danny Boyle's new film. Towns lie in ruins, trains rot on the rails and the EU has severed all ties with the place. Some residents are stuck in the past and congregate under the tattered flag of St George. The others flail shirtless through the open countryside, raging about nothing, occasionally stopping to eat worms. You wouldn't want to live in the land that Boyle and the writer Alex Garland show us. Teasingly, on some level, the film suggests that we do. Boyle and Garland first prowled zombie Britain with their 2002 hit 28 Days Later. It was an electrifying piece of speculative fiction, a guerilla-style thriller about an unimaginable world. Since then we've had Brexit and Covid, and the looming threat of martial law in the US … The story's extravagant flights of fancy don't feel so far-fetched any more. 'Yes, of course real world events were a big influence this time around,' Boyle says, sipping tea in the calm of a central London hotel. 'Brexit is a transparency that passes over this film, without a doubt. But the big resonance of the original film was the way it showed how British cities could suddenly empty out overnight. And after Covid, those scenes now feel like a proving ground.' Where Cillian Murphy first walked, the rest of us would soon follow. Tense and gory, 28 Years Later is a fabulous horror epic. I would hesitate to call it a sequel, exactly: it's more a reboot or a renovation; a fresh build over an existing property. Newcomer Alfie Williams plays 12-year-old Spike, who defies his parents (Jodie Comer and Aaron Taylor-Johnson) and flees the sanctuary of Holy Island for an adventure on the infected mainland. Along the way, he tangles with berserker zombies and smirking psycho-killers, and encounters Ralph Fiennes's enigmatic, orange-skinned Dr Kelson, reputedly a former GP from Whitley Bay. All of which makes for a jolting, engrossing journey; a film that freewheels through a gone-to-seed northern England before crashing headlong into the closing credits with many of its key questions still unanswered. The hanging ending is the point, Boyle explains, because the film is actually the first part of a proposed trilogy. Sony Pictures has put up two-thirds of the budget. The second movie – The Bone Temple, directed by the American film-maker Nia DaCosta – is already in the can. Boyle has plans to shoot the final instalment, except that the future is unwritten and the industry is on a knife edge 'Sony has taken a massive risk,' the director tells me happily. 'The original film worked well in America to everyone's surprise, but there's no guarantee that this one will. It's all because of this guy, [Sony Pictures' CEO] Tom Rothman. He's a bit of a handful, a fantastic guy, runs the studio in a crazy way. He's paid for two films, but he hasn't paid for the third one yet and so his neck's on the line. If this film doesn't work, he's now got a second film that he has to release. But after that, yeah, we might not get to complete the story.' Good directors reflect the times they work in, but they're at the mercy of them, too, hot-wired to the twists and turns of history; up one year and down the next. And so it is with Boyle, who's travelled from the sunny Cool Britannia uplands of Shallow Grave and Trainspotting through the imperial age of Slumdog Millionaire and the London Olympics, right down to the shonky doldrums of today, when a cherished project might collapse under him like an exhausted horse. He's 68 now, and battling to get his films across the line. I don't know why he's so cheerful. Hasn't everything gone to hell? 'Well, I'm an optimist,' he says. 'So I don't despair about things the way I know that a lot of people do. Also I'm slightly more outside the media than you. That allows me a slightly different view on things. And increasingly, as I age, I become more wary of the obsessions of the media. That constant catastrophising and sense of perceived decline.' It's particularly noticeable in the US, he thinks. 'Much of Trump's dominance is undoubtedly down to his appeal to the media. He is so media friendly. His soundbites, everything about him, fit hand in glove with news and entertainment to the point where it's damaging. Whereas in this country, we're quite fortunate. We've dodged the far-right bullet for the moment and we elected Keir Starmer against the tide of what's been happening elsewhere.' He reaches for his tea. 'It could be a lot worse.' In 2012, Boyle devised and directed Isles of Wonder, the opening ceremony of the London Olympics. The show was a triumph: a bumper celebration of British culture that made room for James Bond and the queen, Windrush migrants and the NHS, Shakespeare and the Sex Pistols. 'But my biggest regret was that we didn't feature the BBC more. I was stopped from doing it because it was the host broadcaster. Every other objection, I told them to go fuck themselves. But that one I accepted and I regret that now, especially given the way that technology is moving. The idea that we have a broadcaster that is part of our national identity but is also trusted around the world and that can't be bought, can't be subsumed into Meta or whatever, feels really precious. So yeah, if I was doing it again I'd big up the BBC big time.' He laughs. 'Everything else I'd do exactly the same.' Isles of Wonder has safely passed into legend. These days it's up there with James Bond and the queen. I wonder, though, how history will judge Slumdog Millionaire, his Oscar-winning 2008 spectacular about a ghetto kid who hits the jackpot. Boyle shot the film in Mumbai, partly in Hindi, and with a local crew. But it was a film of its time and the world has moved on. 'Yeah, we wouldn't be able to make that now,' he says. 'And that's how it should be. It's time to reflect on all that. We have to look at the cultural baggage we carry and the mark that we've left on the world.' Is he saying that the production itself amounted to a form of colonialism? 'No, no,' he says. 'Well, only in the sense that everything is. At the time it felt radical. We made the decision that only a handful of us would go to Mumbai. We'd work with a big Indian crew and try to make a film within the culture. But you're still an outsider. It's still a flawed method. That kind of cultural appropriation might be sanctioned at certain times. But at other times it cannot be. I mean, I'm proud of the film, but you wouldn't even contemplate doing something like that today. It wouldn't even get financed. Even if I was involved, I'd be looking for a young Indian film-maker to shoot it.' A waiter sidles in with a second cup of tea. Boyle, though, is still mulling the parlous state of the world. He knows that times are tough and that people are hurting. Nonetheless, he insists that there are reasons to be cheerful. 'Have you got any kids?' he asks suddenly. Boyle has three: technically they're all adults now. 'And I think that's progress. I look at the younger generation and they're an improvement. They're an upgrade.' The director was weaned on a diet of new wave music and arthouse cinema, Ziggy Stardust and Play for Today. He began his career as a chippy outsider and winces at the notion that he's now an establishment fixture. 'It all comes back to punk, really,' he says. 'The last time Lou Reed spoke in public, he said: 'I want to blow it all up,' because he was still a punk at heart. And if you can embrace that spirit, it keeps you in a fluid, changeable state that's more important than having some fixed place where you belong. So, I do try to carry those values and keep that kind of faith.' He gulps and backtracks, suddenly embarrassed at his own presumption. 'Not that my work is truly revolutionary or radical,' he adds. 'I mean, I'm not smashing things to pieces. I value the popular audience. I believe in popular entertainment. I want to push the boat out, but take the popular audience with me.' I suggest that this might be a contradiction. 'Yeah, of course it is,' Boyle says, snorting. 'But I've found a way to resolve it – in my own mind, at least.' If 12-year-old Spike played it safe he'd have stayed on Holy Island beside the reassuring flag of St George. Instead, the kid takes a gamble and charts his own course to the mainland. He's educating himself and embracing a fraught, messy future. He's mixing with monsters and slowly coming into his strength. That's what kids tend to do, Boyle explains. That's why they give us hope. 'Maybe hope is a weird thing to ask for in a horror movie,' he says. 'But we all need something to cling to, whether that's in films or in life.' 28 Years Later is in UK cinemas now

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