‘Transphobes' are swivel-eyed loons, says Labour MP in leaked audio

Telegraph

19-07-2025

A Labour backbencher has been filmed deriding 'transphobes' as 'swivel-eyed' and suggesting they are 'not very well people'.
Tim Roca described the Supreme Court judgment on trans rights as 'very depressing' and rejected his own party's stance that it had brought 'clarity'.
In a leaked recording, obtained by The Telegraph, he also said Parliament was a 'toxic cesspit' and other MPs were motivated by 'fear, envy, greed'.
Mr Roca was elected as the first ever Labour MP for Macclesfield last year, winning a seat which had been represented by the Tories since 1918.
He made the remarks during a talk he gave earlier this month at an event hosted by the University of Westminster, called Queering Academia.
'I think actually the UK has now really gone down the rabbit hole into the way the United States discusses issues of gender, race, poverty, all of that,' he said.
'So if we can bring the debate back into being one based on rationalism and compassion – and actually as we know, the facts – I think that's a much better place for all of us to be.
'What we can't be, is we can't look like the alternative version of the transphobes. The best argument against them is a conversation with them, because they look swivel eyed and honestly, they're not very well people, I don't think, the ones that I've met.
'So we have to make sure, as passionate we are, that we're talking passionately but sensibly and bringing people around.'
Mr Roca has described himself as 'Macclesfield's first openly gay' MP and said his first act on getting the job last year was to join the town's Pride march.
He said 'the most toxic element' of his campaign to get elected were the 'anti trans voices', claiming he had been heckled and had 'stuff thrown at me'.
Speaking at a panel event titled Leading While Queer, he attacked the Supreme Court judgment that womanhood is legally defined by biological sex.
He also criticised Baroness Falkner, the outgoing Chair of the Equality and Human Rights Commission, and said Labour MPs were pushing for a pro-Trans replacement.
Baroness Falkner came under attack from left-wing backbenchers after the watchdog issued guidance in light of the verdict banning trans women from female toilets.
'I challenged the equalities watchdog after that very depressing Supreme Court judgment,' the Macclesfield MP said.
'The EHRC is clearly led by somebody who is not a friend of our community. In my view, I want to make sure the next head of the EHRC is somebody who is a friend of our community.
'And I've got colleagues in Parliament who are working really, really hard on that. But challenging the EHRC interim guidance, which is appalling, was really, really important.'
He disputed that the judgment had brought 'clarity', saying it had 'caused fear and incredible uncertainty and…undermined protections' for trans people.
In doing so he was directly contradicting the Prime Minister, who said in the immediate aftermath of the verdict that he welcomed the 'real clarity' it brought.
During his speech Mr Roca was also critical of his Tory predecessor, David Rutley, as a 'terrible Member of Parliament', singling him out for his Mormon faith.
'Hogwarts by the river'
He said that he had been 'struck by how toxic Parliament is' being re-elected and said the building itself favoured those who were privately educated.
'You've got the full gamut of human qualities there – the most amazing people really fighting for incredible principles and values,' he said.
'You've also got people who are motivated by fear, envy, greed, all sorts. And it's a bonkers building, it's like Hogwarts by the river.
'Buildings shape how you function very, very often, and if you're educated in Oxbridge or a public school, Westminster feels perfect for you.'
At one point during a question and answer session Mr Roca also appeared to oppose his own party's policy of lowering the voting age to 16.
In the remarks, made before Angela Rayner unveiled reforms this week to extend the vote to 16-year-olds, he said the change risked benefitting Reform.
He said that while Nigel Farage had boosted his popularity with the young on social media sites like TikTok, content produced by Labour MPs was 'pretty naff'.
'I'm really worried [about] the number of young people who really like Reform,' he said.
'We need to be alive to the risk of Reform, alive to the risk of money like Elon Musk's flooding our political system.
'I want there to be another Labour government, but I think we need to have a system that's ready for the challenges that Reform pose as well.'
The video was passed on to the Telegraph by James Esses, a psychotherapist, campaigner and founder of Just Therapy.
He said: 'For an elected member of Parliament to speak with such disdain for the Supreme Court, the Chair of the EHRC, and those across society concerned about the impact of gender ideology on women's rights and child safeguarding, is shocking.
'However, my gut tells me that this is how your average Labour MP thinks and that should concern us all.'