Back in Black: Jenna Ortega and Tim Burton Break Their Silence on ‘Wednesday' Season 2

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4 days ago

Jenna Ortega and Tim Burton sit down across from you, and there's a lot to take in.
The red-hot star and the black-heart director are a study in surface-level contrasts and soon-to-be-revealed similarities. This is their first major sit-down interview together, and both are a bit anxious. Ortega is sometimes fidgety and other times gives you that frozen Wednesday Addams 'I can see your soul' stare. The more freewheeling Burton — with his signature dark carnival-spun cotton candy hair — routinely tries out several sentences before deciding which is best.
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They are, Burton warns, 'two people who speak in 'erms' and 'ums,' that's our language' — sharing a joint discomfort with the obligatory 'Let's sell the show!' interview process as they have battle scars from past press encounters (with Ortega sporting a particularly fresh wound). Not helping matters is that our chat is being conducted in a drab New York high-rise conference room, where Ortega and Burton look like exotic fish out of water, plucked from the more colorful lagoons they typically inhabit.
Some background: Ortega is the 22-year-old sensation who went from head-turning roles in ensemble horror franchise films X and Scream VI to starring in Netflix's smash hit Wednesday, which follows the droll Addams Family teen as she attends the Nevermore Academy school for 'outsiders.' Ortega also co-starred in fall's Warner Bros. box office hit Beetlejuice Beetlejuice.
Both Wednesday and the Beetlejuice franchise are directed by the 66-year-old Burton, who's enjoying a late-career revival thanks to these back-to-back hits with his Gen Z star. With a list of credits ranging from Batman to Ed Wood to Sweeney Todd, Burton has long been a singularly unique goth artist type who has somehow managed to survive, and often thrive, within the studio system. (Burton doesn't use the word 'goth,' by the way. 'It's lost meaning,' he says. But it's tough to detach his brand from that word — and it's safe to assume he doesn't like the word 'brand,' either.)
The duo come bearing some news: Wednesday has scored a renewal for season three, and a spinoff series is in early discussions. Below, they're interrogated about Wednesday season two (which returns Aug. 6; trailer below), the perils of fame (such as — pardon us, we're just quoting — being called a 'cunt whore' in front of one's mother) and a potential Beetlejuice 3 (Warner Bros. film boss Mike De Luca will want to pay close attention to this part). We tried to make this painless, but it wasn't entirely possible. These two feel deep.
Let's go back to the start: What initially excited you both about ?
TIM BURTON I've never done television, so it was the idea of exploring something on a longer time frame, and she's an interesting character. As much as a middle-aged man could feel like a teenage Wednesday Addams, I feel those things. And she's a character that's all about being subtle because she doesn't really have a huge range of emotions.
JENNA ORTEGA She's also one of the few protagonists who is able to get away with that, aside from villains — who tend not to have emotional growth or depth. … I actually did an audition for [a Wednesday animated movie] when I was 14, and I didn't get it. I remember telling my mom, 'That would be cool to be her, though.'
Tim, you once said, 'You have to kind of be Wednesday, and that's what Jenna is — whether she likes it or not.' Jenna, how do you feel about that?
ORTEGA I think I am? I don't know. I don't know why I got this job. I will say maybe I feel even more attached to her now.
BURTON You can become a lot of different things as an actor. But for Wednesday, you have to have it. I don't mean that she's dark. You need this weird internal strength and clarity because you can't manufacture it. Jenna's like a silent movie actor, and what I enjoy about her character is not so much the [dialogue] but the way she presents herself.
Before Ortega was cast, Burton had warned Wednesday creators and showrunners Alfred Gough and Miles Millar, 'If we don't find Wednesday, there is no show.' But there was almost no show to begin with. 'We thought the idea for Wednesday was such a no-brainer, but when we went out to pitch it, we only had one bidder,' reveals Millar. After Netflix bit, Ortega auditioned by Zoom while filming X. The showrunners say she brought a sharpness and otherworldliness to her reading that other candidates lacked. 'The easy take on the character is that she's a bitch, that she's cold,' Millar says. 'But Wednesday's not trying to be that way, and you never feel that way with Jenna.'
What worked well — and what didn't work so well — that first season?
ORTEGA Netflix has a lot more trust this time around. So we were able to do things on a grander scale and were able to spend more time on sequences. There are also a lot of new castmembers like Steve Buscemi and Billie Piper, and doing a scene with them pushes you further because they're so gifted. We also play on the excitement that Wednesday got from having saved the school in the first season. So it's nice to see her shut down again out of pure agony [from the attention].
BURTON The key element always is — and this is where Jenna is crucial — that the show could so easily veer away from what that character is. They could try to give her a bigger arc, make her more emotional. Jenna knows how far you can go. There's a creative freedom when you are clear about that.
ORTEGA Sometimes I'll catch a glance of a shot and realize part of why a scene isn't working is because my posture's off, or my chin isn't tilted down enough or that I'm not still enough.
Yes, the character is so specific, right down to not blinking. Surely your eyes get tired.
ORTEGA You [blink] on everybody else's line. Your eye does start twitching. There were a couple setups in season one that looked like I was crying because I was trying to keep my eyes open.
Was there anything about the performance that you look back on that you wished you had done differently?
ORTEGA All the time. I don't think I've ever shot a scene in my life that has not kept me up at night and given me nightmares. I can't watch the stuff that I do because I don't think I would ever show my face again. I was 17 or 18 when we started this, and I was so nervous and so scared. The first two weeks of production were some of the most chaotic, stressful moments in my career. When I see some of the old footage, I can see the confusion or the stress.
Do you ever wonder if you're being too hard on yourself? Isn't there a point in which trying to be that perfect becomes less useful?
ORTEGA I get told that all the time, and I can totally acknowledge that. But I've also got this weird thing where every day I change who I am to a certain degree. I will be having a full-blown panic attack about something and then I will end it with, 'I actually don't care.'
BURTON She hides it well. All the things she's talking about, I never sensed that. Those feelings never came out.
ORTEGA I think it's from starting my career so young and being accustomed to being on a set. I have a lot of respect for people who carry themselves with professionalism. I want to make sure everybody else is comfortable, and it's stressful when you can sense somebody else's stress. Like with Tim, some directors freak out when they're in tense situations, but if anything, he almost gets calmer. That's such a gift because you feel like you have the space to do what you need to do and nothing else matters.
BURTON The first time on set, the first day of shooting, I knew from the beginning that Jenna knows everything about what's going on in front of and behind the camera. I could see her watching everybody.
ORTEGA I'm a creep. You're never not being watched by me.
This seems to be a point of difference between you. Tim, in your early interviews, you talked about how you embrace the flaws in your work.
BURTON Have you seen [Beetlejuice Beetlejuice]? Everything is still flawed! That's just part of who I am. I'm a flawed individual.
How has your relationship evolved along the way?
BURTON For me, it hasn't.
ORTEGA Maybe we have a touch more shorthand? Both of us want to do things as quickly and efficiently as possible. So if he has a note, we just kind of look at each other.
BURTON My favorite form of communication — not speaking. That's also one of the things that we came up with for the show: If Wednesday doesn't want to be somewhere, she just [abruptly walks away, often in the middle of a conversation]. That's something I always feel. If you go to a party and don't want to be there, you walk out.
That reminds me of a line from the new season I liked — 'I don't have FOMO. I have a fear of being included.'
ORTEGA That line was hard for me because I didn't know if I wanted to use acronyms.
BURTON That's what she questions all the time: 'Would she say that?' and 'Would she do that?' are questions on a daily basis.
Ortega taking ownership of her character led to a controversy after the first season aired. The show generated 252 million views globally, becoming Netflix's biggest English-language series of all time. Netflix chief content officer Bela Bajaria says its success 'went beyond analytics: People watched it again and again and brought their parents into it, and it became a multigenerational show. There were soldiers in Ukraine doing the Wednesday dance.' Gough, meanwhile, notes its popularity proved their instincts about it were correct, and that 'everybody identifies as an outcast, no matter who you are.' But during a podcast interview, Ortega accidentally caused an uproar after she said that she spent her time on set 'changing lines' and 'had to put my foot down' because 'everything I had to play did not make sense for the character.' Asked about this, Gough responds: 'Jenna gave notes on the scripts. She's now a producer. She's very involved, and she has a 360-degree view of things that, frankly, you don't find with most actors. I think she'll have a long career.'
What was that like for you, personally, to have your first experience of being in a controversy and getting backlash? Every star goes through this at some point. But it doesn't mean it isn't hard while you're in it.
ORTEGA I mean, I felt terrible. In no way did I mean to come across that way. I spend a lot of time in my head and I have all these different trains of thought, and all I needed to say was, 'I improvise.' Also, nobody, before, ever cared what I said. It was a good lesson.
I was thinking that, too. If you said that two years earlier about another project, nobody would have noticed.
BURTON In this new media world, people will find one thing you say and that's it. You can't stop it. It's like a virus.
What was that like for you, Tim, as somebody who is protective of your star?
BURTON I just felt bad for her because I know her, and I know the media, and I know what happened. I've had certain things happen to me where somebody tried to concoct some kind of story about me. This is why I don't hardly talk to anybody.
ORTEGA The amount of times I have seen headlines with quotes that I've never actually said is bizarre.
BURTON Then it becomes like the villagers in Frankenstein. Mass hysteria. People with torches.
Fear of public persecution is also a theme in your work — like in .
BURTON And it's upsetting because you can't really do anything. It doesn't matter if you retract it, or say, 'I didn't mean to say that.' Nobody gives a shit.
ORTEGA And I pride myself on my professionalism, so that was a weak moment for me.
There's a scene in the new season where Wednesday gets a letter from her editor on a book she wrote, and the editor says she's difficult to work with and won't take notes. Was that deliberately poking fun of this?
BURTON It's always fun to have life and art intermingling.
Jenna, you're furrowing your brow like, 'Wait a second …'
ORTEGA No, I'm just trying to remember it. I don't know how meta it was for me. But I do think the great thing about the Wednesday character is she's constantly making societal remarks and just kind of degrading the public. So I think that that was a funny bit to touch upon and acknowledge it.
Jenna, you once asked a great question of Natalie Portman that I wanted to ask you back: As far as the public persona of you goes, do you think it's accurate?
ORTEGA Not at all. I think that's part of my struggle with that side of this job, because you feel incredibly misunderstood. It's almost to a point where it feels like your name doesn't belong to you. I almost don't even resonate with it anymore. I hate assumptions, and a big part of this job is that people are going to make assumptions about you.
What do people assume that's not right?
ORTEGA I don't know. Yes, I have qualities similar to Wednesday, but I'm not …
BURTON You know what I miss? I miss the days of mystery. I miss when you didn't know how much a movie cost and when you didn't know everything about actors. So when people have a misunderstanding, it's like, why is it their business?
ORTEGA That's the discussion on 'the death of the movie star,' and that's exactly it. We know too much. And the people feel entitled to those bits and pieces of your life where if they were put under the same microscope, they wouldn't feel nearly as comfortable. But there's an expectation on creative people, who half the time should not be speaking publicly. They're supposed to become salesmen for their brand. But they should just lock them in a room and let them create their art.
BURTON I go further. I still love people. But I work with people I like working with, and I don't want to go out to dinner with them. The more I know about them, the less it's helpful for me as a director.
Jenna, are you still able to go out and about at this point?
ORTEGA Sometimes you go out, and it's a mess. And other times, I could be walking for hours and no one gives a shit. If you really want to go unseen, you can do it.
I'm sure 99 percent of fan encounters are positive, but have you had any that are scary?
ORTEGA I'm always scared. Somebody shouting your name in public is insane. Sometimes I feel uncomfortable when it's grown men approaching me. Also, sometimes people shout vile things. Like, you don't stop for somebody because you're going to be late for something and they're calling you a 'cunt whore' in front of your mother. It's horrific.
Then I'm sure you're like, 'Oh, I wish I would have stopped for you.'
ORTEGA Yeah! Let me go back …
The dancing scene in season one was a huge breakout viral moment. Was there any sort of pressure going into season two of, 'Well, we probably can't top that, but can we find something that will stand out?'
BURTON This sums up what I like about working with Jenna. We didn't do a big Broadway rehearsal. We didn't hire a choreographer. I picked the song and said, 'You just go do it.' She showed up on the day — I think she even had COVID — and we just did it. It was the most fun I had on the show because we just let it go. But to your question: No, we didn't think about it this time because we didn't think [about the dance number being a big deal] to begin with. It gets dangerous to say, 'We have to do something like this again.'
How many seasons is this show, ideally?
BURTON I don't think that way. You're talking to two of the worst people to ask that question.
It might seem odd to ask how long a show will continue when its second season hasn't aired, but Ortega has hinted she's eager to explore other projects as well as make her own. Gough and Millar hope to keep Wednesday enrolled through the character's Nevermore tenure, which lasts seven years (or seasons). Yet ditching school early — like abruptly walking out of a conversation — would be such a Wednesday thing to do (Ortega stepped out of the Scream franchise after two films, but that was a unique situation; the actress has pointed to the project's collapse after her onscreen sister, Melissa Barrera, was ousted for social media posts and director Christopher Landon quit). The Wednesday team is exploring a spinoff, the details of which remain top secret for now. 'It's something we're definitely noodling; there are other characters we can look at,' says Gough, while Bajaria says — and one might consider this a hint — 'There's a lot to explore in the Addams Family.'
Jenna, you've said that part of the reason studios are freaking out about Gen Z is because nobody knows why things hit the way they do. So not to put you on the spot with 'how to save Hollywood,' but what do you think it would take to get Gen Z into theaters?
ORTEGA The emphasis on integrating Gen Z slang and behavior in films is so forced that it turns people off. I think studios are trying way too hard. Just give the new guy a chance, give the original script a chance, allow people to be creative and maybe step back a little bit. With Gen Z, it's hard to grab their attention. You can't show them stuff that they've already seen.
I see Tim nodding along …
BURTON Strongly agree. I'm a perfect example of that. I always worked with studios, but everything I did was kind of a surprise. I did movies that were on 10 Worst Movies of the Year lists — like [the original] Beetlejuice was. It surprises, it confuses people and then it clicks. And if you want somebody to do something, then let them do it. Otherwise it's like you're a star athlete and they break your legs and say, 'Go win the race.'
Another thing you guys have in common is you both have criticized AI. James Cameron recently said that AI could make blockbusters financially viable. Could you ever see using it as a tool?
BURTON I don't know that much about it. All I've seen is when people have done AI versions of my characters, and that I didn't like. I felt like something had been taken away from me. I'm sure there are a lot of great uses for it. Every new technology has the potential to be good or bad.
ORTEGA I just see what's happening to young people and the kind of content AI is creating. It's taking out the humanity and we're getting further from the truth. You wonder why people are anxious and depressed, and it's because not everything that they're seeing is meant to be digested. It's junk food for the brain. It's not real. It's not attainable. It creates a great sense of isolation. And the beauty about film is that it comes from people with stories and personal experiences — and a computer can never replicate that. We've never not taken something too far. I feel like people never know when to draw the line.
In April, Mike De Luca development on is starting 'imminently.'
BURTON Really? Nobody told me. Maybe I've been replaced.
ORTEGA Maybe I've been, too. Maybe [her character] Astrid dies and goes to heaven instead [of the films' Netherworld]. They should just take Baby Beetlejuice on tour and send him to Hawaii.
BURTON It took 35 years to make the second one, so by that time I'll be 105. I know those odds are not good. I really, really enjoyed making this one, and [Warner Bros.] didn't even really want to do it. We did it the same way I did the first one, with the actors doing improv. It was beautiful to see some of the old cast and have Jenna. But it's like trying to re-create the Wednesday dance scene. I love the characters, but I don't necessarily see it.
But it's tough for me to imagine you being like, 'Let somebody else do it.'
BURTON No. I feel very proprietary about everything I do, even if I don't own the characters. When they did the [Beetlejuice Broadway musical], I got pissed.
And Jenna, if they said, 'We want , but Tim is not directing it …'
ORTEGA Oh, I would never. I also think anybody would be really wrong to get behind that project. Without him involved, what is it? It is what it is because of Tim. There's no other film you can compare Beetlejuice to. So why would you do that? That would be a tad disrespectful.
Tim, we heard you might be doing a movie for Sony?
BURTON I don't talk about anything until I'm doing it. I've had projects that I thought I was doing [like his scrapped Superman Lives movie starring Nicolas Cage], and it got canceled. When that happens, it's a soul destroying moment in life. I'll let you know when I'm on the set making a movie. Even then, you never quite know.
ORTEGA I would love for you do to something based on the Japanese monster, though…
BURTON Oh, don't worry, that could be happening.
Jenna, as somebody with ambitions to direct yourself, is there anything about the way Tim directs that has inspired you?
ORTEGA The way Tim carries himself on set. He's so polite. He knows everybody's names. He trusts the team. When I initially started working with him, I would ask him for notes and critiques. He wouldn't give any. It's not because he wasn't trying to be helpful, but he was allowing me the space to find what was going to work for me. It created a greater confidence in myself. I think he really brings out the best in people and allows them to think out of the box, so you want to get weirder and weirder with it. It's such a joy when someone brings that out of you.
So what do you both hope to do over the next few years?
ORTEGA I don't even have plans for tomorrow. It's a waste of time.
BURTON Me either.
This story appeared in the July 23 issue of The Hollywood Reporter magazine. Click here to subscribe.
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