Stephen Flynn clashes with Labour MP over PIP cuts on Politics Live

The National

18-06-2025

On Wednesday's BBC Politics Live, Labour MP Helena Dollimore attempted to defend her party's plans to change the eligibility criteria for Personal Independence Payments (PIP), which the UK Government's own analysis has said will push 250,000 people into poverty, including 50,000 children.
SNP Westminster leader Stephen Flynn made sure these statistics were laid out as as Dollimore tried to argue Labour were helping to pull people out of poverty.
Dollimore started by saying: "The clue is in the name. We are the Labour Party, we are the party of work, we believe in the benefits of people going to work when they can, but protecting those who can't work…"
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Referencing his own experience in claiming disability benefits, Flynn then intercepted to say: "This isn't about people who can't work this is about disabled people, some of whom are already in work.
"I claimed disability benefits, I was disabled for 18 years until I got a hip replacement a couple of years ago. I know the benefit of having access to disability living allowance as it was then, or personal independence payment. It can facilitate their ability to get to and from work, or to do the basic things, in some cases like being able to wash themselves.
"You are going to put 250,000 people into poverty including 50,000 children. If you want to talk about the name of the Labour party, that is not it."
(Image: BBC) The exchange then started to get more heated as the pair began speaking over each other.
Dollimore went on: "This is about targeting the support of the welfare state at those who need it the most, those who can never work and giving support to those who want to work."
But Flynn interjected to say: "Do you accept that 50,000 children are going to go into poverty as a result of your decision?"
Dollimore tried to highlight some issues with the analysis, saying it didn't look at "positive measures we are taking to lift children and people out of poverty".
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But Flynn then pointed out how Labour had kept the two-child benefit cap in place, which several charities have said is the biggest driver of child poverty.
He said: "Like lifting the two-child benefit cap? By matching the Scottish child payment? Do you believe in the two-child benefit cap? Of course you do.
"If you want to talk about the policies and values of the Labour party, you've lost yourselves."
Dollimore then exclaimed "don't talk over me, let me speak" to Flynn as the pair continued to argue.
"In the budget we gave three million of the lowest paid workers a raise in the national minimum wage, that's worth £1400 a year, that helps lift people out of poverty, it makes work pay better, and that analysis you've talked about doesn't include any of that," she said.
Laughing, Flynn replied: "It's your own analysis!"
The UK Government's reforms to the welfare system are expected to have their first outing in Parliament on Wednesday.
The Welfare Reform Bill will be introduced in the House of Commons, and its text will be published so MPs can begin scrutiny of the proposals.
Alongside changing PIP criteria, ministers also want to cut the sickness related element of universal credit (UC), and delay access to it, so only those aged 22 and over can claim it.
Ministers are likely to face a Commons stand-off with backbench Labour MPs over their plans, with dozens of them last month saying the proposals were 'impossible to support'.