Behind the scenes at the conclave with Japan's Cardinal Kikuchi Isao
Pope Leo XIV was elected by 133 cardinals from all over the world – including the Archbishop of Tokyo, Cardinal Kikuchi Isao. The 66-year-old spoke exclusively with NHK on May 12, offering a rare glimpse inside the secretive conclave.
*The interview, translated from Japanese, has been edited for brevity and clarity.
Please describe the experience at your first conclave.
Cardinal Kikuchi Isao: I have been a Catholic Christian since I was a child, and I felt very nervous because this was an election to decide the head of the Roman Catholic church. Japanese Cardinal Kikuchi Isao attended the conclave.
There was little detail beforehand, so I was wondering when my smartphone would be taken away from me. When I arrived at the guesthouse in Vatican City just before the election, its usual entrance was closed, and I was instructed to enter via an underground parking lot. There were a lot of x-ray machines, like an airport's security inspection area.
Everyone's belongings were checked, and all electronic devices were taken away on the spot, including smartphones, personal computers and chargers. All those items were put away in special sealed envelopes. The security process took a long time.
They took away smartwatches as well. So, the cardinals who relied on their smartwatches were not able to tell the time or set their alarms. Some of them asked: "How will we wake up on time tomorrow morning?" A staffer rushed to a nearby souvenir shop to buy alarm clocks for them. Cardinals from around the world preparing for the conclave
How did the conclave make its choice?
Cardinal Kikuchi: We didn't have a clear front runner. Before the conclave, we had the General Congregation of Cardinals. During that, many of the cardinals demonstrated the qualities required. The chosen person should have deep experience in pastoral care. They also need to be a capable administrator and leader.
It is very difficult to find somebody who has both abilities, but Robert Francis Prevost, now known as Pope Leo XIV, really fit the requirements, because he was a missionary in Peru, a bishop in Peru, and he also served as Prior General of the Order of Saint Augustine. He was a prefect of the Dicastery for Bishops. So he has both pastoral experience, and administrative experience.
From a religious perspective, he possesses a deep spirituality. So we are pleased that we found somebody very suitable. Window coverings shielded the room where the conclave took place
Cardinal Kikuchi: I have seen the movie "Conclave", and the reality was nothing like that. In the film, people are plotting, arguing and making accusations. These kind of things never happened during the conclave.
We didn't know each other well, so we spent a lot of time in the dining room talking over meals and drinks. We shared a lot of stories about ourselves so that we could get to know each other. They were the best moments.
In that process of getting to know one another, we were able to come to a conclusion ― based on the hopeful requirements expressed during the conclave and General Congregation ― what kind of pope we wanted. We found somebody who is extremely suitable, who fits the requirements. And that is Pope Leo XIV. Cardinals pray at the conclave.
Was it difficult to make a choice?
Cardinal Kikuchi: A two-thirds majority is not an easy thing to acquire. If there was something like a straw ballot, then we could narrow down the number of candidates, and move on more quickly. But there are no straw ballots, so we just start voting and it is very difficult to narrow down the candidates.
That's why we took so much time. In the end, I think that was a good thing…we had a plenty time to think it over and pray, and discern the real call from God. We had a result on the second day.
Was there a turning point?
Cardinal Kikuchi: Because there was no strong front runner among the cardinals, at the beginning it was very difficult to narrow it down to one or two people. But after some discussions over the dinners, and after the first vote on the first day in the evening, I think we had an idea about the suitable candidates, including Prevost and others. Cardinals gather on May 8 after Pope Leo XIV, pictured center in white, was elected. Cardinal Kikuchi Isao is pictured on the left.
Some observers were tipping an Asian or African pope, but the cardinals picked an American. What do you make of that?
Cardinal Kikuchi: I was really surprised that we made the decision to choose an American. But at the same time, because of his experience in Peru, the Latin American cardinals are very happy to have him. The new pope (a dual citizen of the US and Peru) comes after Pope Francis from Argentina. The American cardinals are also very happy.
For the Asians and African cardinals, we felt that our time has not yet come. Of course, before the conclave, in the media we saw some of the Asian and African cardinals' names mentioned. During our discussions at the General Congregation, we felt that maybe the time is not quite right for an Asian or African leader of the Catholic Church.
We talked about how the Catholic Church is really a European institution, based on Italian culture. The pope is also Bishop of Rome so he must understand Italian culture, be familiar with the Italian way of working, and be able to speak Italian. In a cultural sense, he must be 'Italian.' So I think there is still some way to go before the Catholic Church has somebody from Africa or Asia as a bishop of Rome. Cardinal Tagle, left, from the Philippines, and Cardinal Turkson from Ghana were considered leading candidates.
What happened when the new pope was elected?
Cardinal Kikuchi: During what turned out to be the final count, an official was calling out the cardinals' names. We were keeping a tally and the moment the number exceeded two thirds, everyone started applauding. Some cardinals were standing up.
I was watching everyone's faces, and from what I could see, they all looked happy as we had a new shepherd.
Prevost seemed to be looking down and praying for something. When he was asked, "Do you accept the result?", he replied, "Yes." He was asked, "What do you want to be called?" and he answered "Leo the fourteenth.' Right after that his demeanor changed. From a quiet cardinal, at that moment, he became filled with confidence.
Once somebody is chosen, it is not we who chose him. According to our belief, it is Jesus himself who appoints somebody to be the successor of Saint Peter. So that is why, whatever the difference of opinions among the cardinals, we will all support the new pope.
I don't know Pope Leo XIV very well, but I have met him before at conferences. He seemed very kind, quiet, and easy to talk to. Like many Americans, he likes to crack jokes, and he even enjoyed a laugh at his first press conference. In 2018 Pope Leo XIV was serving as a bishop in Peru.
How do you think Pope Leo XIV will deal with President Donald Trump, a fellow American?
Cardinal Kikuchi: I think Pope Leo XIV is trying to avoid getting involved in politics. Of course, he is from Chicago, but a great deal of his life has been spent in Peru. He has been in Rome for many years as a Prior General of the Order of Saint Augustine. He knows how to work in Rome, and he knows Italian culture.
From day one as a pope, he started speaking exclusively in Italian, using a little Spanish to greet to Peruvians. Whenever he appears before the people, he wants to show them that he is the Bishop of Rome. That is a priority for him.
At this moment, he's trying to avoid being involved in any politics. But in the future, we don't know. There will be a time for a meeting between Pope Leo XIV and the President of the United States, and we will see what will happen. Pope Leo XIV
Why did the new pontiff emphasize "peace" during his first speech?
Cardinal Kikuchi: Prior to the conclave, during the General Congregation of Cardinals, many of us spoke about the role of the Catholic church in building peace in the world, especially in Ukraine, Gaza, Myanmar, Sudan, and other parts of the Middle East and Africa. There was a view that the new pope should be the one to take the lead on building peace. So that's why Pope Leo XIV is emphasizing that. He also wants to foster dialog, because that serves as a basic foundation for creating peace.
Some critics feel Pope Leo XIV is not as empathetic to the LGBTQ community as his predecessor. What do you think?
Cardinal Kikuchi: During the General Congregation and the conclave, we didn't talk much about specific issues like accepting the LGBTQ community, or allowing the ordination of women, or accepting divorced people for communion. They are all issues still being considered by a study group established by Pope Francis, and some recommendations are expected by the end of June. I'm sure that Pope Leo XIV is also waiting for those findings. Vatican
What are your hopes from new pope?
Cardinal Kikuchi: Everybody all over the world knows the cities Hiroshima and Nagasaki and the history of the atomic bomb during World War Two. This year marks the 80th anniversary of the bombings, so we would welcome the Holy Father if he was able to come to Japan and make a strong appeal for peace. Pope Leo XIV
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