‘Pee-wee as Himself': Director Matt Wolf on exploring the duality of Paul Reubens and earning his trust — ‘It was a constant struggle'

Yahoo

17-06-2025

When Matt Wolf took on the daunting task of creating a documentary about the enigmatic Paul Reubens, the man behind the flamboyant and charming Pee-wee Herman, the filmmaker never could have imagined just how deeply layered the story would be. Now, in Wolf's Pee-wee as Himself, audiences are given an unprecedented look at a fiercely private artist whose boundary-pushing creativity and resilience impacted an entire generation.
The two-part HBO documentary introduces viewers to Reubens in an unexpected way: as an eccentric figure claiming to have been born in 1938 on the banks of the Mississippi River. It's humor that cuts straight to the core of who Reubens was, but also hints at the complicated man behind the bowtie. Wolf admits that the opening moments of a documentary often come together through trial and error: "Oh, I don't know. You just try stuff out and it sticks and we probably tried that immediately as the first thing and it stuck. I mean, it's funny."
More from GoldDerby
'Gypsy' and 'Just in Time' producer Tom Kirdahy on serving a 'social and cultural need' through creative work
TV Visual Effects supervisor roundtable: 'Black Mirror,' 'The Boys,' 'The Wheel of Time'
'The Wheel of Time' VFX supervisor Andy Scrase: 'I always think of visual effects as the magic of filmmaking'
For Wolf, getting a chance to tell Reubens' story required more than just persistence — it required fate. 'People, when you make documentaries, ask who's your dream subject? And mine always was Paul,' Wolf tells Gold Derby. After several unsuccessful attempts to connect with the famously private Reubens, a serendipitous sequence of events involving the Safdie brothers [Benny and Josh], who were at one point rumored to be working on an autobiographical Pee-wee film, ultimately led to Reubens reaching out to Wolf through producer Emma Tillinger Koskoff.
From the outset, however, trust was a challenge. Reubens, known for his intense control over his public image, was reluctant to relinquish that same control for the film. "It was hard. It was a constant struggle of trying to earn Paul's trust, but to also accept that there were limits to how much he was willing to trust somebody," Wolf explains. Reubens' fraught history with the media, where he felt his personal story was often misrepresented, left him wary.
"I empathized with where he was coming from," Wolf continues, "but trust is a foundation of what we do as documentary filmmakers. ... And Paul was somebody incapable of taking a leap of faith." Over the course of hundreds of hours of conversations, the two worked to find a middle ground, even as Wolf recognized that Reubens would never completely let his guard down.
Courtesy of HBO
Unbeknownst to Wolf and the crew, Reubens was privately battling cancer while filming the documentary. "I was scheduled to complete a final interview with Paul the week after he died," Wolf shares. "I found out that Paul died on Instagram, the day he died, along with everybody else." The reveal added an even deeper emotional weight to the production. Despite this devastating blow, Wolf pressed on, knowing Reubens wanted the documentary to move forward, giving his blessing in their final conversations.
'I read the 1,500-page transcript of our interview right after [he passed],' Wolf recounts. 'I wanted to rise to the occasion and do justice under these extraordinary circumstances.'
The film explores the duality that defined Reubens' career: Pee-wee Herman, the irrepressible, childlike alter ego, and Paul Reubens, the man behind the magic. It's a balancing act few have undertaken successfully, as Wolf points out: 'Somebody else who's in the film that's done that a bit is Elvira, Cassandra Peterson. But it's a small club of people who live as their alter ego. And Paul was kind of the most visible member of that club.'
Reubens made a conscious choice to keep Pee-wee a separate entity, a concept born out of both creative and personal motivations. "He wanted people to believe that Pee-wee Herman was a real person,' Wolf explains, 'but on a deeper level, Paul was very protective of his privacy and anonymity."
HBO/Pee-wee Herman Productions, Inc.
As the documentary delves into Reubens' life before Pee-wee, it reveals the formative influences that shaped not only the character but the artist himself. From his art school days at CalArts to performing as an openly gay man before retreating into the closet for his career, Reubens' trajectory captures the struggles and compromises of a queer artist in the entertainment industry of the 1980s.
"He chose to go into the closet to focus on his career,' Wolf notes. 'It was a personal but also pragmatic decision, knowing that in the early 1980s, an openly gay man would not be able to rise in the entertainment industry."
Reubens' rejection from Saturday Night Live became the catalyst for Pee-wee Herman's creation. "I think that rejection really kind of emboldened Paul to take matters into his own hands," Wolf observes. From a midnight play at the Groundlings to the cult success of Pee-wee's Big Adventure, Reubens carved out a path that was quintessentially his own.
HBO/Pee-wee Herman Productions, Inc.
Collaborating with now-iconic director Tim Burton on his feature debut, Reubens enjoyed a type of creative freedom and naïveté in Pee-wee's Big Adventure. Wolf reflects on Burton's experience making the film: 'You're just kind of putting it all out there. And I think there was something very naive about the making of Pee-wee's Big Adventure that allowed it to be very pure."
His subsequent Saturday morning show, Pee-wee's Playhouse, broke barriers with its artistic vision and diverse cast. 'In some ways, people recognize that the show was revolutionary,' Wolf says. 'But to watch in more specific detail the types of things that they accomplished and the ambition of it, it will be undeniable how singular it was as a cultural phenomenon.'
The documentary doesn't shy away from the controversy that derailed Reubens' career. The incident in an adult movie theater — and subsequent false allegations of child pornography — forever altered public perception. Wolf describes the impacts of that time: "Paul was in a state of shock for a number of years and it had a profound impact on his life... But thankfully we were able to see him in his full breadth of talents as a character actor."
Reubens' ability to persevere and work through those challenges is a testament to his resilience. "[He] was a resilient person," Wolf emphasizes. "I didn't see him as a victim. I think he proved over and over again that he could overcome hardship and kind of put his work first."
For decades, Pee-wee and Paul existed as two separate beings, a distinction even immortalized on the Hollywood Walk of Fame, where Pee-wee Herman has a star — Paul Reubens does not. Wolf hopes that his documentary helps fuse these two sides of the same coin. "Paul Reubens created Pee-wee Herman," Wolf reminded us. 'Now that Paul has passed away ... I hope people can respect and appreciate the artist that was always there within, behind, and alongside his creation.'
Pee-wee as Himself is currently streaming on Max.
Best of GoldDerby
TV Visual Effects supervisor roundtable: 'Black Mirror,' 'The Boys,' 'The Wheel of Time'
'The Wheel of Time' VFX supervisor Andy Scrase: 'I always think of visual effects as the magic of filmmaking'
'The Boys' VFX supervisor Stephan Fleet explains why a one-minute shot 'took about 17 hours' to make
Click here to read the full article.