‘Pakistan is a failed state,' Says Asaduddin Owaisi

India Today

22-05-2025

In an India Today Global Exclusive, Member of Parliament Asaduddin Owaisi speaks out on India's diplomatic offensive following the deadly Pahalgam terror attack. In an unfiltered and wide-ranging interview, Owaisi slams the global community's double standards on terrorism, calls out Pakistan's growing military overreach, and urges stronger neighborhood engagement. He defends India's foreign secretary amid online abuse, backs the multi-party outreach missions abroad, and warns that terrorism, left unchecked, is a regional cancer. As India dispatches delegations to key world capitals, Owaisi's message is clear: the world can no longer look away.advertisement Question:Let's begin with your decision to join the Centre in this drive. What made you decide to be part of this all-party delegation that is going to go to world capitals? You're going to a few very critical countries for India.
Asaduddin Owaisi:Well, you see, the Minister for Minority Affairs and Parliamentary Affairs had spoken to me and told me that the Government of India is going to send various delegations to different parts of the world, and he wanted me to be part of this delegation, so I accepted it.The reason I accepted is that we are going to present a strong case against our neighbour who has indulged in terrorism for years and years. This has nothing to do with the political differences we have — and will continue to have — but this is a matter of an external threat to our country, especially in light of what happened: the gruesome massacre in Pahalgam and the subsequent developments, wherein our country targeted nine terrorist establishments.advertisementThat was the only reason — to put forward a strong case against Pakistan and the terrorist organisations which are patronised and supported by Pakistan — so that the world knows not only about Pahalgam, but also the numerous incidents of terrorism perpetrated by terrorist organisations from Pakistan in India.Also, we have to bring to the attention of the world that despite the IMF putting conditions on its recent loan sanction, there is a great chance of that money being misused by the Pakistani government, and that could be used against India in promoting terrorism here.We'll be having our briefing — because I'm part of Group One — our briefing will be done on the 23rd. So more information will be given to us, and that would also be helpful.Question:Well, yes, the first batch has begun its all-party delegation journey to some parts, but the countries you are going to — Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Bahrain, Algeria — are very critical and very important for India, especially in terms of projection when it comes to Pakistan being an Islamic nation.How is that really going to work in countries like Saudi Arabia? The Minister of State for Foreign Affairs was actually in India and went to Pakistan — a lot of conversation on de-escalation. In such a scenario, how are you going to present India's case on why there is a need at this time not to show neutrality but to take a side?advertisementAsaduddin Owaisi:Well, as far as the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia is concerned, we have a strategic relationship with the Kingdom.In all these four countries — three of which you mentioned — we have a huge number of Indians living there, sending a substantial amount of foreign exchange to our country.Bahrain — we have a historical relationship with them. Kuwait — also the same.One must understand that the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia has really helped us in stopping terrorism in India by ensuring that all these wanted people who were living in that part of the world were handed over, arrested — or whatever you call it.There is also a huge investment being done by the Kingdom in India. We have been buying oil from them. So, I think we have a great opportunity when an all-party delegation goes — first to Bahrain, then Kuwait, then the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, and then to Algeria.advertisementAs far as I know, all these countries are against any form of terrorism. They have a strict policy that they will never tolerate any terrorist activities. On that point, I think India and these countries are aligned.With the good relationships we have developed over the years with these respective countries, I'm sure this all-party delegation — which I'm part of, headed by my good friend Jay Panda, and with all the respective honourable MPs — will be able to put forward, in a very convincing way, the stance of our government and our country.It is in the interest not only of South Asia but of the whole world that terrorism comes to an end, because no country in the world would like to see any sort of destabilisation in India — when we are a huge economic market for various countries. So it is in the interest of the world that the terrorism being perpetrated and promoted by Pakistan comes to an end.Question: Well, obviously, I see the composition of the delegations. It's very clear that there is also a projection over here — a deliberate attempt by the central government to show unity and diversity. Your take on how that gives India an upper edge, an advantage over Pakistan, which is also going to send delegations in a similar manner?advertisementAsaduddin Owaisi:Well, I beg to differ with you. I don't want my country to be hyphenated with a failed nation. The diversity and pluralism of our great country are reflected in the Indian Constitution. The Indian Constitution itself celebrates diversity, promotes pluralism, promotes equality. So, I let Pakistan do whatever they want — a country which has taken an IMF loan 28 times since it became a failed country in 1947.Question:Also, the projection — I see the composition of the delegation really shows that a lot of effort was made to ensure that there is a projection of unity and diversity, at a time when Pakistan is also trying to do the same — sending delegations to various countries — but theirs will be more homogeneous rather than as diverse as India's delegation looks.Asaduddin Owaisi:I think the less we talk about Pakistan, the better. I don't want India to be hyphenated with Pakistan. Since 1947, Pakistan has been troubling India, trying to destabilise India. They have promoted various terrorist organisations.The fact of the matter is that the Indian Constitution celebrates pluralism and diversity. The Indian Constitution clearly says that India, as a nation, as a country, has no religion, and we celebrate all religions.advertisementWhereas the neighbouring country is a failed state. It was formed on the basis of a religion, but they have used that religion to promote terrorist activities. They have not understood the religion of Islam properly, and that is why you see various terrorist organisations — at one point of time, Pakistan was the headquarters of all the major terrorist organisations that were troubling various countries in the world.So, Pakistan can do whatever they want, but there is no equivalence with what India is and what India will do in the future.The countries that all the honourable MPs will be going to — they also know for a fact that India is on a much higher pedestal than this neighbouring country. Our economy is, what, 7–8 times stronger than the neighbouring country?A country which has taken an IMF loan 28 times — the world understands what Pakistan has been doing with their own country, with their own economy.And I think it is high time that our government ensures that Pakistan is once again put back into the FATF grey list. That will be one of the best ways of ensuring that money is not given to these terrorists and that terrorism is not promoted in India.Question:And that's a very important point you make — that the Centre should be making that effort of getting Pakistan back on the grey list of the FATF.Having said that — and we will talk about the international community because there has been a rather disappointing projection in terms of the positioning of the international community on the issue — but before that: copycat syndrome. What would you call it?We make statements — Pakistan does the same. We hold press conferences — Pakistan does the same. And now we're sending all-party delegations — so Shahbaz Sharif has appointed Bilawal Bhutto to do the same.Should he secure very high-level meetings, what would that mean for India and India's position when it comes to the international community?Asaduddin Owaisi:You know, the person who's going to head the neighbouring country's delegation — whatever it's comprised of — I mean, his mother was killed by an act of terror.So it's most unfortunate that a son who lost his mother to terrorists does not empathise with what India is suffering — has been suffering for many years.Anyway, the agenda we have will continue to be put forward to the various countries we'll be visiting. And I'm sure, Inshallah, from the messaging point of view, from a convincing point of view, from ensuring that the world understands in a clearer way that Pakistan deliberately indulges in promoting terrorism in India —The whole purpose is to destabilise India, to create differences between two communities. And Pakistan wrongly uses the name of Islam.Islam is a religion whose Prophet, Muhammad, gave the main message to end terrorism. So here you have a country which was partitioned in the name of a religion and formed on the basis of religion.In their own country, they are bombing Baloch people. They are bombing Iranian border posts. They are firing at Afghan border posts — which are all Muslim countries, Iran and Afghanistan — and that is why you see the Taliban government outrightly condemning what happened.They are also beginning to understand the importance and the value of having India as a good neighbour — or of having good relations with India.Question:What a pertinent point you make when you say that Bilawal personally has suffered an act of terrorism — and yet, Pakistan fails to understand the gravity of what it does to its neighbours.We cannot choose our neighbours. But then again, going back in history, former and late Prime Minister Narasimha Rao, also took the decision to send an all-party delegation.Interestingly, the Leader of the Opposition back then led the delegation — that was Harkishan Singh Surjeet. Is the government now taking a leaf out of the Narasimha Rao playbook?Asaduddin Owaisi:Not only the Congress government headed by Mr. Rao, but also the government headed by Dr. Manmohan Singh sent delegations.So, you know, let us not look at this from the prism of political differences. Political differences are necessary to ensure and strengthen democracy — and they will continue.I am a bitter opponent of the BJP, and I will continue to be a bitter opponent of the BJP. But this is not a question of political differences. This is a question of someone threatening the integrity of our country, someone deliberately slaughtering Indian nationals by asking them their religion.And for India to become a strong country — of course, we want good relations with our neighbours. But as you rightly said, we cannot change our neighbours.Yet, we cannot trust our neighbour — which is called Pakistan.So for the progress of India, for India to be strengthened, and to realise the dream of our founding fathers, it is very important that at this point of time, all political parties have come together and are part of this delegation which is going to different countries.Question:Has terrorism been weaponised in geopolitics?Look at the countries. Look at the reactions. There was condemnation for Pahalgam, but no specific position or stand for India — not even from DC, where India has invested so much.In fact, if anything, they've done a lot of damage to the conversations that took place.Instead, we're looking at Pakistan — with at least three countries standing by it: China, a very important country, a superpower, an emerging superpower; Turkey, aNATO country; and Azerbaijan.But none of our allies have really stood by us. They only called for de-escalation at a time when India said, "We're only hitting Pakistan. Should they hit us, we'll hit them harder. Should they stop, we'll stop."Is that a disappointing stance? And is that the reason why India needed to do this — this exercise of sending delegations to various countries?Asaduddin Owaisi:I agree with what you have said. You know, we have a good relationship with the U.S. — we had that nuclear deal.And what really worried me was that we could not include the terrorist organisation TRF in the Security Council resolution. That — you know — I was quite worried and surprised that we could not include the name of that terrorist organisation in the Security Council resolution.But I still feel that our government, our diplomats, are quite capable, and they must ensure that the United States designates TRF as a foreign terrorist organisation.It is very important for the United Kingdom and their own Treasury to designate TRF as a terrorist organisation.We must impress upon China also that this is not good for the whole region. And of course, we have our own neighbouring allies — they should also be impressed upon. So, all in all, I feel that a lot of work has to be done on that particular front, and I'm sure the government is looking into it.But I totally agree with you — the countries which are supporting Pakistan have come out very clearly and categorically said that they'll be supporting Pakistan.So, there is room for improvement. Let us hope that the government understands this and takes it up at the highest level with these respective countries.Question:I'm saying there's a lot of politics back home — there's a lot of politics we've seen, and I have to ask you this.There's a lot of politics happening here in the country with regard to the operation SindoorWill this politics impact the outcome of what the all-party delegation intends to do with countries abroad? Because they are watching what's happening in India.They're watching the actions being taken. They're watching the bitter words that are being exchanged between the ruling dispensation and the opposition — between the ruling party and the opposition parties.So is that going to have an impact on the outcome?Asaduddin Owaisi:I don't think it will have an impact because, you see, despite whatever has been said by different political parties —Unlike the countries which are supporting Pakistan — our neighbour — they cannot tolerate differences.We have our own differences, but despite that, those political parties have sent their respective Honourable MPs as part of the delegation.That in itself sends out a clear message — that as far as terrorism is concerned, as far as this neighbouring country which is sponsoring terrorism is concerned, all of us are one.And as the Foreign Secretary — you must remember that during his first briefing, he said that we have a very vibrant democracy in India.So despite what has been said, the political parties have sent their MPs in this delegation.And lastly, you know — I cannot speak on behalf of those political parties — but yes, we will be asking questions of our government at the right time.We must ensure that those four terrorists who massacred Indians at Pahalgam — justice should be done to them.Those terrorists should be caught, or whatever it is — they should be neutralised.And there are some important questions which the country wants to know. I'm sure all of us — including my party — will be asking the government.Question:Right, just two more questions before I let you go — because you mentioned the Foreign Secretary.You were one of the first who came out in his defence. He's one of the brightest we have, but the kind of trolling, the kind of treatment that was meted out to the Foreign Secretary of India was not just disappointing, but shameful — just for having come out and conveyed the message of the central government or MEA.Asaduddin Owaisi:You know, what really surprised me was that the Foreign Minister should have condemned it. But later on, the IAS officers and various government organisations did condemn it. But this is not the way to treat the Foreign Secretary. This is not the way to troll someone — and you're attacking his family. Day in and day out, we see — I mean, I'm sure you cover international relations, you also cover the press conferences which are held at 4 a.m., 10 a.m. — so you know that the Foreign Secretary post in our country is a very, very important post. Especially in the light of what has happened at this point in time — someone indulging in this kind of personal attack...You have the right to disagree. Disagree — who's stopping you from disagreeing? But to attack his family — what has the family got to do with it?At the end of the day, you see, in our Constitution, the Foreign Secretary or the government is part of the executive, which is the ruling party.So whatever the ruling party decides as a policy decision — that will be said by various government officers, whether it's the Foreign Secretary, the Home Secretary, or any Additional Secretary of any department.So, end of the day, if you have a grievance — take it to the government. But why attack an officer? Why attack his family? That is highly condemnable. That should not have happened. And no one should tolerate this.Question:I am looking at the countries that delegations are being sent to — some very important ones. But I do see a glaring miss over here, and that's the neighbourhood.For all the 'Neighbourhood First' policy that India has been carrying out and talking about for the past decade — the neighbourhood seems to have been given a miss.Yes, we do have a very difficult relationship with most of our neighbours — but isn't it important to have that neighbourhood outreach at this point in time, when we're having the most difficult time with our immediate neighbour, Pakistan?Asaduddin Owaisi:Yes, yes — very important. We should have very good relationships with our neighbours — though I must say, we must exclude Pakistan from that.Afghanistan — the Taliban government — I know has openly condemned the attack. Bangladesh — what is worrying for us is that, according to media reports (subject to correction), ISI is a regular visitor in Bangladesh. Nepal is there. Sri Lanka is there.So I'm sure the government knows about this. And it is in the interest of our neighbouring countries that India remains a stronger country. Because one must remember — terrorism is like a cancer. It can spread anywhere. And terrorism itself doesn't differentiate between countries. They can do anything. So, hopefully, they'll realise what India has been suffering for so many years.And I'm sure that, in the coming months, more should be done — will be done — to have a stronger and more vibrant relationship with our South Asian and neighbouring countries.Question:We now have not one but two Field Marshals in Pakistan. Asim Munir has declared himself — if I may say so boldly — to be a Field Marshal after Ayub Khan.It's a very rare instance — even Pervez Musharraf had not gone this far.What's your reading of this, and is that also going to be part of the conversation when you're part of the delegation to the countries that you're going to visit?Asaduddin Owaisi: Well, you know, to answer in short — I've heard a topmost officer of the government say that every country has an army, but the Pakistani Army has a country.So, had there been a position higher than Field Marshal, I'm sure Mr. Munir would have aspired to that as well. They can do anything. It's a joke, basically. They have a civilian government over there, and a man is going to retire — and then he says, 'Oh, I want this post.' And the civilian government bends down, falls at his feet, and says, 'Yes, Your Exalted Highness, Your Exhausted Highness — please take whatever you want.' Must Watch