LIVE: Federal Election 2025 Debate number 3: Albanese vs. Dutton

Daily Telegraph

22-04-2025

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Peter Dutton 'just beat out' Anthony Albanese in the third election debate between the Opposition Leader and Prime Minister in an often heated confrontation.
The panel for Nine's Great Debate said it was a very close call to pick a winner.
'Very close, but I think by far Peter Dutton's best debate. And because it's a cost of living election, in my eyes, he won by a nose,' Nine Network political editor Charles Croucher said.
2GB's Deb Knight said although both leaders performed strongly, and it was 'very, very close', but Mr Dutton was the winner.
'I think, though, for mine, that Peter Dutton just beat out Anthony Albanese. Preface that by basing it on his previous performance. I think that he was strong,' she said.
'He had his points very, very clear. And he, he, you know, talked very clearly about his policy and his vision.'
The third leaders debate was hosted by Nine's ACA presenter Ally Langdon, with question from the senior Nine Media political journalists. Picture: James Brickwood / POOL / via NewsWire
Nine's third panellist, Australian Financial Review political editor Phil Coorey had a harder time picking a winner.
'I think Dutton won a number of fronts. He won on the cost of living. I thought his message was more concise and more consumer friendly, easier to digest,' Coorey said.
But he said a personal attack early in the debate was costly.
'I just think that loss of composure at the start will be used against him and it will just reinforce negative perceptions that people who already don't like him have,' Coorey said.
'So in cold, hard, brutal political terms, I'll give it to Albanese by a nose, but more for Dutton's slip than anything.'
The Prime Minister had been given the win in both of the first two leaders' debate, with a fourth and final one to be held on Seven on Sunday night.
'Personal abuse': Leaders go on the attack
Both Mr Dutton and Mr Albanese accused each other of 'lying' and 'personal abuse' during a heated third leaders' debate on Tuesday night.
The slanging match broke out after Nine's political editor Charles Croucher asked both leaders what they thought the biggest lie has been so far in this election.
'Prime Minister, you couldn't lie straight in bed. Honestly, this is unbelievable,' Mr Dutton said in response to Mr Albanese's attack on his record as health minister a decade ago.
Mr Albanese responded: 'You can go to personal abuse, that's a sign of desperation, Peter.'
'So is lying,' Mr Dutton retorted.
Opposition Leader Peter Dutton and Prime Minister Anthony Albanese have fired up at each other during the third leaders' debate, The Great Debate hosted by Nine. Picture: Alex Ellinghausen / POOL/ via NewsWire
Dutton 'increasingly looks desperate': Marles
In a post-debate presser, Deputy Prime Minister Richard Marles called Peter Dutton 'aggro' and says he 'increasingly looks desperate'.
Mr Marles said voters saw a 'significant contrast between the two leaders', saying that the PM was 'calm and considered'.
'The only thing we are clear on is that he will cut,' Mr Marles said.
'He is still not able to say to Australians where those cuts will come from.
'We know he will have to cut…in order to pay for a nuclear scheme which he increasingly does not want to talk about.'
Coalition campaign spokesman James Paterson was asked whether it was the Coalition's view that Australia was headed for a recession, after the word was used by Mr Dutton during the debate.
'If the Prime Minister is re-elected – if he forms government in minority with the Greens and the Teals – I fear that's exactly what will happen.'
First questions about lies sparks heat
Mr Dutton had joked he would find it hard to pick 'just one' lie from Labor before accusing Labor of running a 'Medicare scare campaign'.
'The fact is that bulk billing has plummeted under this Prime Minister. People can't afford to go to the doctors because the out of pocket expense now is about $43 per person,' Mr Dutton said.
'So there have been a lot of lies told by Labor over the course of this campaign, but I don't think Australians are stupid. I think they see through it.'
Mr Albanese went after Mr Dutton's failure to visit at a nuclear power site so far in the campaign.
Peter Dutton and Anthony Albanese are facing off in The Great Debate hosted by Nine. Picture: James Brickwood / POOL /NewsWire
'Peter has not said where the money is coming from for his nuclear power stations. He won't go anywhere near them,' Mr Albanese said.
'He was in Orange today, just near Lithgow. Won't go near them and he won't go near them because he knows that it just doesn't stack up. Which is why the private sector won't fund them.'
Mr Dutton was asked by moderator, ACA host Ally Langdon, to rate his performance. He immediately pointed to Labor's negative attack ads.
'The Labor Party spent $20m throwing mud and negative ads, and that has an impact,' he said.
He then pointed towards Labor's struggles to curb migration, which has resulted in a housing crisis.
'So Australians feel tension because their kids are staying at home longer. Young families are putting off having kids,' he said.
'Mums and dads and grandparents are staying in the workforce longer because they're trying to help their kids with mortgages or with the deposit. And I can get that.'
He added that people had become 'disillusioned' as a result.
'People are living in very uncertain times. When you have a look at what's happening in the world, in our own region,' he said.
'People are unsettled by what they see on the world stage, and they need a Prime Minister with.'
Leaders asked about spending cuts and spending restraints
Australia's bottomline was put under the microscope, with budget forecasts indicating Australia will remain in deficit for the next decade until 2034-35.
Mr Albanese's answer highlighted Labor's two surpluses and said his government had improved the bottom line by about $207bn.
'So we have shown our economic responsibility. We didn't promise a surplus, but we've delivered,' he said.
'The former government when they came into office … Joe Hockey promised a surplus in the first year, and every year thereafter, and they produced a big duck egg. Zero trust, deficit after deficit.'
Peter Dutton and Anthony Albanese have faced off in an at times fiery clash in the third leaders' debate. Picture: Alex Ellinghausen / POOL / via NewsWire
Mr Dutton is also asked how he will get the 'budget back under control,' prising for clues as to where the Coalition will cut spending.
Mr Dutton said the surpluses achieved by Labor were due to sky-rocketing iron ore and commodity taxes, and lashed Labor for increased spending.
However, he didn't address specific areas where the Coalition would cut spending.
'We will look at the budget. We'll see where the government's wasting money. I think every Australians look at their own budgets now, and if they're having to tighten their belts, so too should the federal government,' he said.
Later he was asked again to identify where the Coalition would target to boost savings, however he said this was not something that could be done in opposition.
'When John Howard came into power, there was $96bn of debt from Labor at that point, John Howard didn't outline the budget from opposition. And it's not something you can do from opposition,' he said.
Mr Albanese lashed Mr Dutton for not being transparent, and said former Liberal prime minister Tony Abbott also promised that there would be no cuts before he slashed education and health budgets.
'There will be cuts afterwards. He's just confirmed that, but they won't tell you what they are now. That's just not being fair dinkum,' he said.
'He needs to come up with where the cuts will be because on top of everything else, there's no plan for how they pay with their nuclear reactor plan. And we know that that will cost hundreds of billions of dollars.'
PM accuses Dutton of talking nation down with 'recession' talk
The Prime Minister has accused Mr Dutton of saying a 'recession' was 'inevitable' for Australia.
The comments come after Charles Croucher asks the leaders how they will manage the government's debt of $24.5bn this financial year.
Talking about interest rates, Mr Dutton said that they were not 'coming back any time soon' unless Labor 'throw us into a recession'.
'We will look at government expenditure. And as again, we've done in the past as a Liberal government, we will look at the budget. We'll see where the government's wasting money,' he said.
Peter Dutton and Anthony Albanese at Nine's North Sydney studio for the Great Debate on Tuesday. Picture: James Brickwood / POOL / via NewsWire
Mr Albanese responded to this by saying it was an 'extraordinary comment' from Mr Dutton.
'It is exemplifies one of the things this election is about; him talking Australia down,' Mr Albanese said.
'He just talked about recession and said that was inevitable. Said that was the only way the interest rates would come down. He verballed the Reserve Bank.
'Talking Australia down does not assist anybody, any of the listeners at home. It certainly doesn't assist our economy.'
Mr Dutton bit back at the suggestion telling the PM he was 'loose with the truth'.
Dutton rules out boost to social security payments
Mr Dutton is also asked about whether the Coalition would increase welfare payments like JobSeeker or the parenting payments, and effectively ruled out increases beyond legislated indexation boosts.
His answer could be significant with welfare groups and independents calling on bipartisan support to raise welfare payments to at least $80 a day. Currently they're at about $55, give or take.
While Mr Dutton acknowledged the 'very difficult situation' and said that while he wanted to see that number increase, he didn't believe the 'budget can afford to do that at the moment'.
The rest of his answer segues to the Coalition's cost-of-living policies.
'Uncertain time': Leaders make final pitch
Both leaders were asked to make a final statement to wrap up the debate.
Mr Dutton started, calling this election a 'sliding doors moment'.
He said Australia was facing an 'uncertain time' and needed a Prime Minister who had 'strength of character' and the 'ability to stand up for our country.'
'I believe with my experience, I have the ability to say to the Australian people that I can lead our country through an uncertain time, rebuild the economy and help get the cost of living pressures down so that families can afford to live again,' Mr Dutton said.
Mr Albanese says the country is indeed going through an 'uncertain time' which is why the nation needed to have a leader with a 'record of building relationships'.
'This is not the time to cut, which is what the Coalition will do, have to do in order to pay for their nuclear plants in order to make it clear where they want the country to go,' Mr Albanese said.
'The last time the Coalition came to office, they said there'd be no cuts to education and health. And of course, we know that they ripped in.
'This is a time to build Australia's future, not to cut.'
Leaders share their three favourite things about each other
In the final question of the night, the leaders are asked to name their three favourite things about the other person.
Mr Albanese gets in with an early joke and says: 'Three? Look, I only ever prepare for one'.
However he musters up three points and answers with Kirrily (his wife), his family and Mr Dutton's longevity in the parliament.
'He bats way above his average with Kirilly, he has a terrific family. I've had the privilege, and he clearly cares about them and that's a terrific thing,' he said.
'Longevity in politics. We've been in parliament for basically the same amount of time, almost both been there for more than 20 years. That's an achievement, and Peter, in that time has had a tough seat that he's contested consistently over a long period of years.'
Mr Dutton in response says: 'The Prime Minister's fathership' and his fiancee Jodie, to which Mr Albanese jokes that 'we're both punching above our weight'.
'I again acknowledge the Prime Minister's support of AUKUS from opposition, and it wasn't an easy outcome,' Mr Dutton said.
'As he pointed out, he was satisfied that nuclear energy was safe, but he got that through the caucus, which was a difficult thing,' he said.
'And AUKUS, when we negotiated it, it was about underpinning our security for the next century. And that's three, isn't it?'
Is Albo hoping to win by default?
Mr Albanese has been asked if he is trying to win the election 'by default' by framing himself as 'I'm not Peter Dutton'.
Mr Albanese disagrees and says Labor has two key phrases guiding Labor's re-election efforts.
'No one left behind, but no one held back,' he said.
Prime Minister Anthony Albanese says he wants to build a strong economy. Picture: James Brickwood / POOL / via NewsWire
He says the phrases go towards ensuring 'vulnerable people' aren't left behind, while also offering all Australians opportunity through education.
'So it's two philosophies are what drive my government. You need a strong economy in order to do it, and that's what we have done in repairing so much damage from what we inherited,' he said.
Dutton questioned about what Coalition stands for
Mr Dutton faced questions on what the Coalition was standing for at this election.
'The last time Coalition won from opposition, (then leader) Tony Abbott had a very clear, simple slogan. Stop the boats. End the waste. Repeal the carbon tax,' Ms Langdon said.
'People knew what they were voting for.
'What does the Coalition stand for other than being against Albanese?'
Mr Dutton started spruiking his petrol excise policy – a talking point which has well and truly been worn out.
'But not the talking points. We've heard that tonight,' Ms Langdon said.
The Opposition Leader pointed to his policies on community safety, tax rebate and energy.
'People know that a Coalition government more effectively manages the economy. If we do that, we can bring inflation down,' Mr Dutton said.
'We can help families get through this God awful period of the last three years and help get their own budgets back on track.'
Dutton asked if he is a 'lightweight' Trump
Peter Dutton has been asked if he is a 'lightweight' Donald Trump.
The Australian Financial Review's Phil Coorey political editor has asked the Opposition Leader about his likeness to the US President.
'One of the bigger factors, overriding factors has been a tendency of voters to associate you in a negative fashion with Donald Trump, something that's been helped along by the Prime Minister and Labor,' Coorey said.
'What do you say to those voters out there who think you're a lightweight version of the unpopular US President?'
President Donald Trump speaks during a meeting with El Salvador's President Nayib Bukele in the Oval Office of the White House in Washington, Monday, April 14, 2025. (Pool via AP)
Mr Dutton said the connection had been the result of 'negative ads', 'lies' and 'mudslinging' from Labor.
'I've been in Parliament since 2001. I've served under four prime ministers, and I've watched seven prime ministers in total,' Mr Dutton said.
Opposition Leader Peter Dutton at Nine's North Sydney studio for the leaders' Great Debate n Tuesday night. Picture: James Brickwood / POOL / via NewsWire
'I believe that I've got the experience to bring to this job my biggest influence in my political life was John Howard and Peter Costello.
'I worked as assistant treasurer, and I have taken inspiration from them both in terms of how to keep our economy strong and how to keep our country safe.'
Deb Knight asks the Prime Minister why his extended power rebate to bring the price of bills down also applies to 'billionaires like Twiggy Forrest and Gina Rinehart', questioning why the policy is not 'means tested' to ensure it only gets to Aussies who need it.
Mr Albanese said the 'across the board' policy helped get inflation down.
'Which is why interest rates are now falling. They started to rise before we came to office,' Mr Albanese said.
'I think that's a no': Terse exchange over Trump
Mr Dutton has accused Mr Albanese of not being able to get the US President on the phone.
In the last debate, Mr Dutton said he was confident he would be able to get an exemption on tariffs – despite no other country being successful.
Asked about why he was confident, Mr Dutton pointed to his experience before accusing Mr Albanese for being 'unable to get into the West Wing'.
Mr Coorey asks the Prime Minister: 'You have asked twice now...official requests in the last month for a conversation with the president. Has he rung you back yet?'
'We're continuing to engage constructively,' Mr Albanese responds.
'I think that's a no,' Mr Dutton responds.
Will people actually be able to buy homes under Labor?
Mr Albanese is also asked whether young Australians will actually be able to buy a home under Labor's housing policies, with house prices continuing to go up.
Mr Albanese's answer is mainly a rehash of his government's housing promises to date.
As a recap, Labor will allow all first home-buyers to purchase a home using just a 5 per cent deposit, with the government covering the remaining 15 per cent.
This means homebuyers will avoid Lender's Mortgage Insurance.
Labor has also promised to build 100,000 homes exclusively for first-home buyers, however neither policies go directly into reducing the cost of housing.
Prime Minister Anthony Albanese in the Great Debate on Nine on Tuesday night. Picture: James Brickwood / POOL / via NewsWire
Mr Albanese also spruiked the co-ownership Help To Buy scheme for low-income earners, which he said has 'worked very effectively in places like Western Australia'.
'So the government can have up to 40 per cent of ownership of a home. And when a family are in a position to pay that of, or at the end when it's sold, then that payment can be made down as well,' he said.
'It's a way of assisting people in a home ownership. It's worked effectively right throughout Western Australia since the 1970s.'
Dutton says he would advise son to use his super for home deposit
Croucher asks Mr Dutton whether he would advise his son Harry to take money from his superannuation for his first home deposit, as per his policy.
Harry was out on the campaigning trail with Mr Dutton last week, helping his dad spruik his housing policies to young voters.
'I would,' Mr Dutton said.
'Because I think if we had this policy in place, say five years ago, there would have been the option for young Australians to be in home ownership territory.
'If they did that, their net position today would be hundreds of thousands of dollars better off to couple of points.'
Leaders rule out changes to Capital Gains Tax
Continuing on housing, Phil Coorey also asks both leaders whether they would rule out changes to capital gains tax discount – an incentive given to housing investors which reduce the amount of tax paid by 50 per cent if they've owned the home for at least 12 months.
Coorey notes that economists have noted that the capital gains tax as well as negative gearing has 'exacerbated the problem' of rising home prices.
The question also comes as both leaders have ruled out changes to negative gearing, despite constant lobbying by the Greens.
Both leaders have ruled out further changes.
Albo names biggest threat to Australia
Asked to share the 'biggest threat' to Australia, Mr Albanese answers with 'complacency and the uncertain world that we inherit in uncertain times'.
His answer canvases not just defence but also climate change, with Pacific countries suffering the brunt of rising ocean levels, in doing so, he also attacks Mr Dutton for his historic comments joking about global warming.
'Every Pacific leader remembers him joking about water lapping at their doors for the Pacific Island neighbours. It's not a joke. Climate change. It's something that is the entry fee to credibility in our region, with our ASEAN neighbours,' he said.
Mr Albanese added that his government has been able to develop 'constructive' relationships with Japan and Korea, while also 'restored more normal relations with China' by restoring about $20bn in trade deals.
'That was stopped with the impediments that were put in place that were not even a phone call between any Australian government minister and our major trading partner.'
Dutton asked what he can offer single mum
Langdon brings forward a question from Karen, a single mum who works for minimum wage and often 'skips meals so her kids can eat'.
'She can barely cover the rent and is worried that she'll soon be homeless. She sees nothing in what you're putting forward that helps her. So what do you say to her? Because right now she does not have a lot of hope,' she asked the Opposition Leader.
Mr Dutton said the expenses faced by the single mum were being faced by 'many Australians' at the moment.
He said his tax rebate, energy policies and petrol excise would help Karen.
'If you're a single mum, that's a big expense. We can provide relief in the household budget items, particularly around energy through our gas, natural gas for Australians policy, which brings down the wholesale cost of gas by 23% and that has a flow on impact right across the economy,' Mr Dutton said.
'That's how we can help.'
Dutton forced to defend fuel excise cut
Mr Dutton was also grilled on one of the Coalition's key policies – a 25 cents cut to fuel prices through the halving of the fuel excise for a year.
Panellist Deb Knight noted petrol prices had dropped since Donald Trump's trade war, saying: 'insurance costs are skyrocketing, petrol prices are coming down'.
The question was an attack on one of the Coalition's key policies, with Mr Dutton hitting a dozen petrol stations in the election campaign thus far.
However Mr Dutton said cheaper petrol would have a flow-on effect on the entire economy.
'It is because it goes across the economy. So it's not just for families who are doing it tough,' he said.
'Pensioners are really doing it tough because they've got fixed incomes and rising costs under this government, electricity is up by 32 per cent, gas is up by 34 per cent and for those pensioners and self-funded retirees, for small businesses as well, they benefit.
'So whether petrol is at $2 a litre or $1.05 a litre, it will always be $0.25 cheaper under us.'
The rules for the Great Debate
Both leaders given just 60 seconds to answer questions from the panel of journalists moderated by ACA host Ally Langdon – 9News political editor Charles Croucher, 2GB's Deb Knight and Phil Coorey, political editor of the Australian Financial Review.
Peter Dutton wins the toss
Peter Dutton won the toss and kicked off 'The Great Debate' on Nine, starting with
acknowledging the death of Pope Francis.
'I'd like to start by extending my condolences to Australians of Catholic faith and of Christian
faith at the passing of the Pope,' he said.
'There is appropriate recognition in our country and around the world at such a significant event.'
Mr Dutton said he would be focusing on housing, community safety and energy costs during tonight's debate.
'At the moment, Australians, of course, are going to the polls and people have been out voting today and this election is incredibly important,' Mr Dutton said in his opening statement.
'Over the course of the last three years, people have gone through the biggest drop in living standards in any other country compared to any other country in the world.
'We need to make sure that we can help them achieve the dream of home ownership, and we also want to make sure that we can keep our country safe.'
Albo returns fire on opening statements
Sharing his opening remarks, Anthony Albanese said Labor's plan was to 'build Australia's future and to build your family's future,' and highlighted key policies like a 25 per cent cut to HECS debt, and tax cuts.
He also acknowledged global uncertainty but said his government was well-placed to respond.
'We can't determine what the world throws at us, but we can determine how we respond. 'We're gonna respond the Australian way, by backing our values and trusting our people,' he said.
The rules for the Great Debate
Both leaders given just 60 seconds to answer questions from the panel of journalists moderated by ACA host Ally Langdon – 9News political editor Charles Croucher, 2GB's Deb Knight and Phil Coorey, political editor of the Australian Financial Review.
The have also been given 30 seconds for rebuttals.
It is the third of four leaders' debates on Tuesday night, as the disrupted election campaign resumes.
The Prime Minister and Opposition Leader on Tuesday paused planned campaign events for the May 3 election, following the death of Pope Francis on Easter Monday.
The leaders had been expecting to ramp up campaigning after the Easter four-day long weekend and before the Anzac Day long weekend starting on Friday, as early voting began.
But they both decided to suspend campaigning, declaring it was 'not a day for 'overt politicking'.
Prime Minister Anthony Albanese and Dean of St Patrick's Cathedral Monsignor Stuart Hall, at mass on Tuesday morning. Picture: Brendan Beckett
Opposition Leader Peter Dutton attended a special mass held St Mary's Cathedral in Sydney at lunchtime on Tuesday. Picture: Richard Dobson / NewsWire
An audience of 100 undecided voters at the Sky News/Daily Telegraph People's Forum gave the first debate to the Prime Minister on 44 to 35 votes, while 21 were undecided.
Political commentators in last week's second debate on the ABC generally gave the win to Mr Albanese, although there was no vote.
Tuesday night's debate on the 9 Network will take place from 7.30pm.
It's a must win for Mr Dutton who has been falling behind in the opinion polls, and was deemed to lose the first two debates.
The final leaders' debate will be held on Sunday night on the 7 Network at 8pm.
Two of Mr Dutton's three children, Rebecca and Tom, were on hand to support their dad in the debate.
Dutton slipping behind in the polls
The latest Newspoll for The Australian, released on Monday, showed Labor had the Coalition to continue to slip.
Labor's primary vote has lifted one point to 34 per cent, the latest survey suggests, and Labor continues to hold a 52-48 per cent lead in the two-party preferred vote.
The primary vote improvement marks the highest level of support for Labor since January 2024 and, if it holds for election day on May 3, would mark 1.4 per cent lift from the Party's May 2022 result.
The Coalition's primary vote is at 35 per cent, a 0.7 per cent dip on its 2022 result, and four points lower from January.
A Roy Morgan poll released on Tuesday afternoon also show Labor in front.
If the election were held now, the poll shows the ALP would be returned to government with an increased majority.
The ALP on 55.5 per cent up 1 percentage point from a week ago) ahead of the Coalition on 44.5 per cent (down 1 per cent) on a two-party preferred basis.
Meanwhile, analysis of Newspoll has also shown Mr Dutton is losing the women's vote.
Mr Dutton has acknowledged he is the underdog in the race for the Lodge.
Originally published as Australian election 2025: Albanese, Dutton have faced off in third leaders' debate